Canadian Catholics flee Liberals in droves

A Catholic Priest had rightfully said that the professing Christian the now ex Liberal  Prime Minister Paul Martin should be excommunicated from the Catholic church also, FOR HIS SUPPORTING GAYS, GAY MARRIAGES, AND NEVER MIND HIM ALSO SUPPORTING ABORTION AND ALCOHOLISM, and while the Liberal spin doctors next  said this was a non critical issue, well it appears Paul Martin should have   been  excommunicated from the Church but  should have also been also excommunicated from the Liberal party for  HIM BEING ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS HIS PARTY LOST DEFEAT TO THE NEW CONSERVATIVE PARTY AND IT NO LONGER CAN GET BACK  UP ON IT’S FEET AS A RESULT IT SEEMS TOO.

Finally in  Canada the LIBERAL NEWS MEDIA IS NOW SERIOUSLY RECOGNIZING, NOTICING THE EFFECT OF THE RELIGIOUS PERSON’S VOTES.. it is kind of  too late for them and others to do it too once they the relgious right  had helped to form and to elect  the Reform Party to eliminate next the Progressive Conservative federally and also had next helped to form, elect the new Conservative Party to to defeat the Liberals..  

I have been detailing for decades the significant influence in Canada  that the Christian priests and pastors have on their congregation, others. Few people had wanted to admit it at all.

So the Federal   Liberals for their past support of gays, abortions are now paying a big  price for it .. they are even broke.. no money.. and had lost too many supporters.. they reaped what they had sowed..

Liberal G Kennedy in Ontario is the choice of the religious right as well. Thanks to even ex PM Paul Martin  who seems to be dreaming of a comeback too Canadian Catholics flee the Liberal Party  in droves too. 

“Catholics flee Liberals in droves  Catholics have always voted Liberal, until recently As Canada’s once-mighty Liberals consider their future, they might be advised to visit a local church-and not just to pray for the party. The religious vote, it seems, played a major role in their recent election defeat. According to new data from Angus Reid Strategies provided exclusively to Maclean’s, Catholics-who make up 44 per cent of Canada’s population and have preferred the Liberals for decades-are flocking to the Conservatives. Catholic voters back parties that are community-minded, says Andrew Grenville, Angus Reid’s chief research officer. And in 2006, for the first time, they shifted their support to the Tories. This year’s results confirm the trend: outside Quebec, 49 per cent of Catholics who attend church weekly voted Conservative, compared to just 38 per cent in 2004. Within Quebec, where upwards of 80 per cent of the population identifies as Catholic, the switch away from the Liberals is even more striking. In 2008, just 22 per cent of Quebec Catholics voted Liberal, compared to 56 per cent in 2004. “Looks like we have a new status quo,” Grenville says. It’s not just Catholics who’ve had a change of heart. Protestants, who make up 30 per cent of the population, tend to split their vote between the two major parties, but over the last four years, there’s been a big shift toward the Tories. In 2008, 64 per cent of church-going Protestants outside of Quebec chose the Conservatives, compared to 51 per cent in 2004. Voters who attend so-called conservative churches (such as Baptist, Mennonite, and Stephen Harper’s own Christian and Missionary Alliance) prefer the Tories in even greater numbers: a whopping three-quarters of them voted Conservative this year. What does it mean? “The Liberals have alienated their base, which shows how weak their support really is,” Grenville says, adding that he isn’t very optimistic about the party’s immediate future. “I can’t see Bob Rae or Michael Ignatieff appealing to that vote either, which is in part why their prospects aren’t too bright.”

And my own experiences with Canadian liberal news media, liberals, liberal politicians are so blind they had undeniably now underestimated the starch of the all of evangelical churches, who had themselves formed the Reform, Alliance, and the new Conservative party, and next had wiped out both the old Conservatives under Brian Mulroney, and the Liberals under Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin.. I saw it coming , wrote about it 2 decades ago, but you did don’t see it coming. Do get an honest job now.. http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/the-spin-game-evangelicals-and-their-leaders-pastors-do-play-now/

 
“SUSAN LAZARUK and ANGUS LOTEN Montreal Gazette Just four people turned out for a rally against gay marriages in front of Paul Martin’s constituency office in LaSalle yesterday afternoon. Calling themselves “true Christians,” the tiny group joined hundreds of others across the country yesterday at what they called a national prayer vigil urging MPs to vote against same-sex marriage legislation. Organizers had hoped to draw 100,000 people to more than 200 prayer rallies across Canada. “I have nothing against gay unions. What I don’t like is the prime minister telling us what to do in our churches,” said Paul Kambulow. Kambulow said he learned about the rallies, organized by a coalition of religious groups, over the Internet. “I believe in democracy and God plus one is a majority vote,” he said. Martin, who could not be reached for comment, was not in his office yesterday. Elsewhere in Montreal, similar prayer vigils also appeared to fizzle, as few people showed up at the riding offices of other federal MPs. Journalists outnumbered protesters in front of Justice Minister Martin Cauchon’s office. “Same-sex marriage is completely opposed to God, his principles and why he formed man and woman,” said Jackie Bourque, one of nine protesters, including a couple of children, who gathered on the steps of Cauchon’s office. “He did not form Adam and Steve, but Adam and Eve.”

PS Only 4 persons had showed up to pray against the then Prime Minister Paul Martin MP and he Paul Martin unexpectedly, unbelievably shortly after that had lost his office of Prime Minister, and why did so many people show up in the first place? God only needed 2 persons to agree in prayer on this in Jesus name and he would have acted upon it as well. The prayer meetings had fizzled out? you now got to be joking.. they had did their job.

http://thenonconformer.blogspot.com/

 

http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/11/24/catholics-flee-liberals-in-droves.

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More about Control freaks. Fears too.    
Abstainers  
there still can be a good life after div  
Can a person change?  
Fret not!  
Perhaps the best thing for preserving   
it is not good for the man to dwell      
Great Christian links, great Christian  
The false divorce incentives  
The night watch even in time of Sorrow  
Abortion of older children, teens too  
ADULTERY  
 
 
 
 
about the False Teachers &   
Sarah Palin gets loads of free media   
About  
Healing, Todd Bentley, Florda, Lakeland  
How many rich people in Calgary, Edmonton  
Todd Bentley  
Dirtied politics  
Assemblies of God Pentecostals  
Canada’s Prime Minister Stephen Harper  
The Faith Factor 2008 vs. 2004 — Exit  
Dispensationalists it seems to compensate  
The really Bad Alliance , Evangelical   
Lies, slander, personal defamation on   
Todd Bentley, someone has to say it   
Messianic Judaism today  
Control freaks  
TOO OFTEN FALSE BASH OF PENTACOSTALS   

 

Christian and Missionary Alliance   
Can anything good be spiritually   
Class action suit against Bell Sympatico  
“Why Is Toronto Airport Christian   
Great links, great Christian   
My past internet download and service   
the witchhunt against the Pentecostals  
McCain Versus Obama on Medicare  
About  
Bell, BCE, Sympatico  
Bad Pastors, bad deacons, bad elders   
Free Bible versed wallpapers , original  
CHRISTIAN & MISSIONARY ALLIANCE   
CBC formal apology on attack of   
Selling the gospel for money too  
Dirty Dirty Bell Sympatico  
Laying of hands, Impartation, Breathe   
Christians cannot Marry any Non   
Pastors, Elders, Shepherds, Christian   
What does it really mean to follow Jesus  
The Tithe  
alcoholism the unacceptable sin  
what does the word chosen mean in the  
What is the general Christian sentiment  
Great Food for thought  
I have no problem with it.  
Leaning to listen to the voice of the   
Relgion.. Finding out the facts,   
Exemplary    
Bell Sympatico  
Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship  
Basic Contract law  
Healing Evangelist Todd Bentley to Fold  
Assemblies of God Pentecostals  
Canada’s election not as interesting   
MURDEROUS COPS coverup is ongoing  
The Spin Game – Evangelicals and their  
Christian and Missionary Alliance   

Report card: Failed- Canada’s hospitals and Health Ministers

0family-doctor
  
 
And you did know that many people tend to get more sick around these holidays and often die as well.

Hospitals in Canada are mainly still here for the good care, safety, health of the patients. But this is not happening too often. For example- All the hospitals must exercise “the greatest control over all aspects of the work over all of the staff, doctors, nurses, technicians included . But undeniably in Quebec too too many nursing employees were, are working for private agencies outside the hospital, so a full accountability, control is clearly lacking. Even in Quebec now there still is a growing reliance by hospitals, old age homes, on using private nursing agencies. Bad nurses and bad doctors rarely face any negative personal consequences. The gravy trains have to be discontinued.

The Quebec government itself now for decades is soft on crime and is wrongfully reluctant to punish any of the bad guys cause they would likely have to start also with themselves. http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/positive-changes-need-to-start-at-the-top/

 
Which now reminds me can you please tell me specially the statistics per province, and city, as to the actual number of people who had died in 2010 due to a hospital acquired sickness? Specifically
1: Shit disease, C-difficile
2: Gastritis- food poisonings
3: VRE
 
Some things seem to never change, such as cold calloused, pretentious governmental Ministers, Health Ministers and their subordinates especially  included mostly all  who really do not care if the others live or die, as long as they alone survive  it seems still too. http://thenonconformer2.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/so-who-what-are-the-causes-of-our-inadequate-medicare-in-canada/  
 
 It seems our Prime ministers, Premiers, politicians care only about the medical care they get.
 
I could not help but notice and read often the great newspaper articles about heart care tips.. but what about all of those people where these same  tips are too late and the mostly pretentious health care is not there now for them.. how does any of this help them but who really cares?
 
Now face it to get get real health care you have to go to the emergency department of a big hospital and you first have to get the attention of the emergency department, the triage  care givers, that is if you can get past those preeminent security guards there, those too often pretentious triage nurses, medical interns who screen all the patients firstly.  
 
But if you still are not dumb to recognize that now hiring 12 nurses or 6 medical interns who get the same pay as one doctor cannot, does not make up, compose even one qualified medical doctor firstly as well you tend to get what you deserve it seems…
 
Most Nurses have 2 years of training while the real doctors have at least a decade, so they the real doctors do have both a deeper and wider applicable   knowledge base too.
 
 In Canada, many people, citizens  are needlessly dying because the hospital infection rates continued to rise  and all of the Health Ministers should be hung for this now immediately too, for murder, and I have been now saying that rightfully and openly for years now too.. do immediately deal with it. Report Card” Canada’s hospitals and Health Ministers are really  not doing enough to fight infections: while the Doctors take big pay cheques still home 
 
 
The C. difficile nightmare goes on too
 
Despite political focus post-SARS, hospital infection rates  The Canadian Press –  TORONTO – Toronto’s SARS crisis and Quebec’s C. difficile nightmare drew political attention – and additional funding – to the problem of hospital-acquired infections.
Canada’s hospitals not doing enough to fight infections: Report Calgary Herald
Report: Hospital infections on the rise Globe and Mail
Science Daily (press release)
all 25 news articles »  Langue : Français »
 
“CP Despite political focus post-SARS, hospital infection rates continued to rise   TORONTO — Toronto’s SARS crisis and Quebec’s C. difficile nightmare drew political attention – and additional funding – to the problem of hospital-acquired infections. But despite that, rates of these infections continued to rise in the years immediately following the outbreaks, a new study reveals. Rates of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus – known as MRSA – more than doubled in the period from 1999 to 2005, said the study, which was based on a survey of Canadian hospitals with more 80 or more patient beds.  Clostridium difficile infections ( shit  disease ) also rose over that period and the number of hospitals reporting new cases of infection with vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus climbed 77 per cent over the period. “Despite the two major communicable diseases – SARS and C. difficile – despite the emphasis by the Canadian Public Safety Institute on safer health care, despite all those things, our institutional approaches to infection control have changed remarkably little,” said Dr. Andrew Simor, head of microbiology at Toronto’s Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre. Simor was not involved in the study. “And the outcomes, as a result, have gone in the wrong direction.” The survey was conducted in 2006 by researchers from Queen’s University in Kingston, Ont., and was a follow-up to an earlier survey conducted in 1999. Both were funded by the Public Health Agency of Canada. The results, which will be published in the December issue of the American Journal of Infection Control, showed that while hospitals reported an increase in staff devoted to infection control, increasing numbers of patients fell prey to hospital-acquired infections. There were 5.2 cases of MRSA per 1,000 hospital admissions in 2005, up from two per 1,000 in 1999. There was also an upward trend in C. difficile infections, and the number of hospitals reporting new cases of infection with VRE soared. “We have to roll up our sleeves,” said lead author Dr. Dick Zoutman, head of infection control at Kingston General Hospital. But while the numbers don’t look good, the director of infectious disease prevention and control with Ontario’s public health agency raised a couple of important caveats. Dr. Michael Gardam suggested hiring new infection control staff is only one step in improving a hospital’s infection control performance. Real improvement requires a commitment and effort from all those involved in patient care in an institution, he said – and that takes time. “Rome wasn’t built in a day,” Gardam said. “You need to have more infection control practitioners. And you need to bring about culture change. And just doing the resources side of things I don’t believe will actually get you there.” Gardam also suggested the numbers might have been worse but for the injection of resources that followed the 2003 SARS outbreak and the C. difficile crisis, which first came to light in 2004. “Probably we are having an impact, we are slowing the increase,” said Gardam, who was not involved in the study. “But we’re not actually achieving a real steady state and we’re not actually seeing a decrease.” That’s especially worrying given the current state of the economy, said both Zoutman and Simor, who noted that infection control efforts are an easy target when hospitals are trying to cut costs. “I’m concerned now that it’s more challenging economic times … that we don’t lose (sight of) this,” said Zoutman. “Because it’s a false economy. It’s penny wise, pound foolish.” “
 
More causes of health problems.  Melamine is sometimes illegally added to food products in order to increase the apparent protein content. Manufacturers knowingly and intentionally mix Melamine, which has some rather nasty ingredients, in our milk. To mix this product, they needed the use of formaldehyde, which is a very toxic and nasty ingredient in itself. Where has the integrity of our products gone? It seems like in the venture of profit many companies will trick and deceive customers into believing whatever they are ingesting is good for them. One important matter though is that, it is not only China who is doing such acts. Many companies everywhere are also putting toxic ingredients in our food and beverages without exactly telling us about it. http://augustafreepress.com/2008/10/13/haresh-daswani-watching-what-you-eat/
 
Medical tests
 
We trust  the medical tests being done, but how effective are they, and what they have a 50 percent error rate still, even the blood tests or xrays and they all do have to be often redone, at least 3 times or replaced with another more valid  medical test? or what you did not know this too?
   
Secondly most of the initial doctor  prescribed medical test for potentially serious  heart problems are really pretentious, cheap, ineffective, basically  all useless, and are mostly now used because the real valid medical tests such as the Echocardiogram   are mostly unavailable and too costly to be used immediatley too, for most people who reallly do need them.
“Some noninvasive Heart tests, and not all of them are fully effective even.. most tests still do require professional diagnostic experiences solely by quailfied cardiologists.
  • Resting electrocardiogram (ECG or EKG)
  • Signal-averaged electrocardiogram (SAECG)
  • Chest X-ray
  • Holter monitor (ambulatory electrocardiogram)
  • Echocardiogram
  • Exercise stress test
  • Computed tomography (CT) scan
  • Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)
  • Magnetic resonance angiography (MRA
 The  echocardiogram is a test in which ultrasound is used to examine the heart. The equipment is far superior to that used by fishermen. In addition to providing single-dimension images, known as M-mode echo that allows accurate measurement of the heart chambers, the echocardiogram also offers far more sophisticated and advanced imaging. The first test that should be done for most people with potential heart problems often seems rather firstly reserved for the pregnant mothers rather still too.” http://www.heartsite.com/html/echocardiogram.html
Based on that above  facts alone a triage Medical  doctor said today to me that he would love to hire me to help out in his emergency clinic, since few people do now even have that essential knowledge of the causes of  medical heart problems grasp, and what about you?  Or are you another one of those people who will let most of the really sick and needy  heart patients die next needlessly too by doing nothing good about it too?
 
  

 

The parents Lisa Guerin and Jonathan Hope  of a 16-month-old girl who died  are guilty of failing to provide the necessities of life, a judge ruled The two were ordered to stay in custody until March 19, 2010 when a date will be set for sentencing. This also applies to all bad doctors and nurses, Health ministers now too  who fail to adequately look after any sick patient.
 
Here is some more abuse details  I rightfully do not accept at all not even quietly now too

After the elections Sarah Palin

 Now that the election is over, and Barack Obama has been elected as the 44th President… are we still going to hear about Sarah Palin? Or will her name become obsolete? After elections, the opponent that loses usually disappears within a week after the election… but this is Sarah Palin we’re talking about… 
 

75 percent of evenagelcials still did not vote for Obama, or 49 percent of the voting US population..

“The media is already harping on the fact that 60 percent of voters expressed doubts about Sarah Palin being ready to take over as President should something happen to John McCain.

But if you study the exit polls carefully, there is no evidence that this fact actually influenced the vote.

When people were asked if Palin’s presence on the ticket was an important factor in their decision, 60 percent answered yes, 33 percent no. But of the 60 percent that said yes, 56 percent ended up voting McCain versus 43 percent Obama.

On the other hand, of the 33 percent that said no, only 33 percent voted McCain versus 64 percent Obama.

What does this mean? People who thought Palin’s presence on the ticket was important were more likely to vote McCain by a significant margin. So the media is allowing their bias to influence the interpretation of the data.

You can look even closer than that. Palin was picked specifically to influence a few key demographics for the Republicans – women, independents, white evangelicals and gun owners:

– White women voted McCain/Palin 53-46. That’s within the margin of error for how Bush/Cheney score with the same group in 2004, 55-44.

– White independents voted McCain/Palin 49-47. There are no comparable data on this group for 2004, but we do know that independents went for Kerry 49-48 in 2004, and 52-44 for Obama this year. It’s safe to conclude that the swing to Obama in this category was caused by non-white independents voting overwhelmingly for the Democratic ticket.

– White evangelical/born again cCristians voted McCain/Palin 74-24 in 2008, which is slightly lower than the 78-21 breakdown in 2004. But their share of the total vote was larger this time than last time (26 percent in 2008 versus 23 percent in 2004), so on balance the white evangelical/born again contribution to the Republican vote was probably about the same size as it was in 2004.

– Gun owners voted for McCain/Palin in the same numbers they voted for Bush/Cheney last time round: 62-37 in 2008 versus 63-36 in 204

So, in those four major target groups, Palin delivered the goods for the McCain campaign. These are groups that were skeptical about McCain before Palin joined the ticket.

In all four categories, the McCain/Palin share of the vote was virtually identical to the Bush/Cheney share in 2004. That seemed impossible before Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin will be a force to be reckoned with over the next four years.”

http://www.thesarahpalinblog.com/

Sarah Palin In 2012


It was a teary-eyed Sarah Palin who waved to the crowd in Phoenix last night and is now on her way home to Alaska to split time as Governor and Mom.

She has a son in Iraq, a daughter pregnant and an infant with Down Syndrome.

She has her hand’s full.

But she has made it clear that this is not the last we will see of Sarah Palin.

“I’m not doing this for naught,” Palin said last week, when asked if all the mudslinging in the campaign made her long for a return to the more sedate politics of Alaska, where she is governor.

After McCain’s stinging loss, Palin, 44, has emerged as one of the strongest brands the Republicans have got.

As one of the most recognisable figures in a party searching for direction and new leadership, Palin’s future role will be a major theme when Republican heavyweights weigh up strategies for the 2010 mid-term congressional elections.

“She definitely is going to be the most popular Republican in this country when this thing is over,” Republican strategist Ed Rollins, and former political director to president Ronald Reagan, told CNN before the election.

And the carefully coiffed conservative Christian who cast herself as a maverick, a reformer and an anti-corruption star, has clearly indicated the 2008 run wasn’t an end-all to her national political ambitions.

“I think that, if I were to give up and wave a white flag of surrender against some of the political shots that we’ve taken, that would bring this whole” endeavour to nothing, Palin told ABC last week.

In the last pre-election episode of NBC’s Saturday Night Live, comedienne Tina Fey, in her much lauded role impersonating Palin, made a show of “going rogue” from the McCain campaign talking points by trying to hawk “Palin 2012” t-shirts.

At Republican rallies in recent weeks supporters too have been seen displaying “Palin 2012″ shirts and banners.

There has been talk in Hollywood of Sarah Palin getting a talk show; talk in Washington of Sarah Palin as the best fundraiser the Republicans have; talk in Alaska of Sarah Palin running for the Senate.

There is a world of options in front of Sarah Palin. She is the star of the Republican Conservative base and if you think she will stay in Alaska for long – you’re wrong.”

http://www.thesarahpalinblog.com/

 if you think the evangelicals have died for long – you’re wrong

Sarah Palin fires back at ‘jerks’ Los Angeles Times – The governor and her aides dispute claims about her foreign-policy knowledge and $150000-plus wardrobe. By Seema Mehta and Maeve Reston Alaska Gov.
Palin Denounces Her Critics as Cowardly ABC News
Palin Calls Criticism by McCain Aides ‘Cruel’ New York Times
Reuters – The Associated Press – Washington Post – The Weekly Standard
all 802 news articles »
 
Readers Respond: Bush and His Critics Wall Street Journal –  The reader response to “The Treatment of Bush Has Been a Disgrace” has been overwhelming. Here’s a selection from the thousands of comments submitted by Opinion Journal readers: Finally, someone with the guts to stand up for W. 
 

The Faith Factor 2008 vs. 2004 — Exit Polls

“”We worship an awesome God in the blue states,” Barack Obama declared during his 2004 Democratic convention keynote. Thunderous applause greeted that line, in part because Democrats felt frustrated that they’d been unfairly cast as a secular or even anti-religion party, and by the political dominance of religious conservatives.”

The Rise of the Religious Left. But clearly Obama still did not get the evangelical votes.

The Faith Factor 2008 vs. 2004 — Exit Polls

election god gap detail final.JPG

election attenders non attenders final.JPG

election by faith whites final third try.JPG

 

elections evangelicals final second try.JPG

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/ 

http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/obama-triumphs-will-be-first-black-us-president/

 

Ten Faith Factors for Election Night

1.How Many Obamagelicals Are There? – It might seem farfetched that a socialist-terror-lovin’-pro-abortion candidate like Obama could win any evangelical Christians but he’s been courting them fervently since he began his presidential run. The key the 40% of evangelicals who call themselves “moderate” or “liberal.” Point of reference: John Kerry won 21% of white evangelicals, Gore 18%. Bill Clinton in 1996 won 26%.  

2.  Will Palin Turn Out the “Religious Right”? — By picking Sarah Palin, John McCain gambled that she’d be able to rev up the evangelical “base.” Even as her popularity has fallen generally, evangelicals still love her (some even believing she was sent to battle the anti-Christ.) Assuming most conservative evangelicals vote for McCain, the second question is: how many will show up? Point of reference: white evangelicals accounted for 23% of the electorate in 2004.

3. Do Midwestern Evangelicals Split With Their Brethren? — Recent polls have showed Obama trailing badly among evangelicals in Florida and Colorado but doing quite well with them in Michigan, Ohio and

Pennsylvania. If he succeeds there, he may have tapped into regional differences in style, theology and politics and launch a new era in faith-and-politics punditry, in which we no longer talk about “the evangelical vote” as a geographically uniform phenomenon.4. Will Catholics Ignore Their Bishops? – The overall Catholic vote has gone with the popular vote winner every election since 1968. Catholic Bishops have been urging Catholic voters to vote for pro-life candidates but a majority of Catholic voters are now pro-choice so it remains to be seen what influence the church will have. (Obama is also winning with the 100-year-old-nuns bloc) Another factor in Obama’s favor: a higher percentage of the Catholic vote will be Latino this year. Last election, George W. Bush won the Catholic 52%-46%.

5. Can Obama Finally Bowl a Strike With Skeptical White Catholics? – During the primaries, Obama did poorly with white Catholics, often working class ethnics or their offspring. Remember his feeble attempt to curry favor through bowling? They tend to be culturally conservative and haven’t voted for a Democrat since 1996. On the other hand, they’re especially concerned about the economy this year, and Joe Biden has been trying to bond with them as a fellow “cultural Catholics.” Point of reference: In 2004, Bush won 56% of white Catholics, Kerry 43%.

6. Will Whitebread Protestants Back the Black Guy? – Recent polls show Democrats gaining with a group that had leaned Republican for most of the past few decades – Mainline Protestants. It appears that while Sarah Palin energized evangelicals, she may have alienated some Mainliners. In 2004, they went for President George W. Bush 54%-46%.

7. Will Latino Protestants Vote Their Values or the Pocketbook? – One positive trend for Obama will likely be the shift of Latinos from the Republican side, where they resided in 2004, to the Democrats. The hidden religious story: most of the shift is driven by Latino Protestants. Many are evangelical and liked Bush’s Christian faith and his conservative positions on social issues (gay marriage, abortion) but have shifted to Obama because of the economy and concerns about immigration.

8. How Will the Kinda-Sorta Religious Vote? – In recent elections, the most religious you were, the more likely you were to vote Republican. This is known as the God Gap, which will still certainly exist. But watch for two things: among weekly churchoers how big is McCain’s margin? Bush won that group 61%-39% Second, Kerry last time beat Bush among more occasional churchgoers 53%-47%. Will Obama increase that margin?

9. Will Jews Schlep to Republican Side? – This only really matters in

Florida, and even there it doesn’t matter as much as you’d think (Jews made up 5% of the electorate there in 2004). Early polls had Obama struggling among Jews – in part because of fears about his former church’s connections to Louis Farrakhan — but more recently he’s caught up, possibly because Jews fear that Sarah Palin is an extreme evangelical. Or possibly the Sarah Silverman factor. Jews reportedly went about 75%-25% for Kerry.10. Will the GOP Become the ROP? – Will Republicans become the Religiously Oriented Party? In 2004, white evangelicals made up 36% of Bush voters.
Will that go up or down? If it becomes an even more dominant force within the party, how will that shape either the way McCain governs if he wins or, if he loses, how the Republicans re-invent themselves.

Carla Hinton  Religion Editor http://blog.newsok.com/religionandvalues/2008/10/31/389

 

so what do you say  about the faith factor…

Though the economy clearly was the defining issue of the election, Obama forged a new coalition by luring millions of religious left voters who had avoided Democrats in recent years.

In short:

He narrowed the God Gap. Bush beat Kerry among weekly church-goers by 61%-39%. McCain is beating Obama 54%-44% Most of that gain appears to have come from Protestants rather than Catholics

He won Catholics back. Early exit polls indicate he won 54% of the Catholic vote compared to 45% for John McCain. George W. Bush won the Catholic vote 52%-46%. Most of those gains came from Catholics who don’t attend mass weekly.

He also improved among white Catholics, according to the early exit polls. Bush got 56%-43% As of now, McCain lead by just 51%-49% This was despite an aggressive push by more than 50 Bishops to encourage Catholics to focus on abortion as the central issue.

He man real gainst among Evangelicals. Evangelicals and Born Again Christians made up a greater portion of the electorate this year than last election but that didn’t all accrue to McCain’s benefit, as predict. Obama improved slightly on a national level, getting 25% compared to Kerry’s 21%

But far more important, he made significant progress in the pivotal rustbelt states that won him the election. For instance, evangelicals flooded the polls in Ohio and Obama significantly improved on Kerry’s showing.

He attracted more Mainline Protestants — Though shifting toward the center in recent years, mainline Protestants — once a core of the Republican party — – still went for the Republicans in 2004. The exit polls didn’t ask specifically about mainline Protestants but it appears Obama improved slightly with this group.

He energized the lightly religious. Though secular voters already voted Democratic, they did so by an even bigger margin this year. Even more important, a quarter of the electorate says they go to worship services but only a few times a year. Kerry won that group with 54%-45%. Obama won 61%-38%

BREAKING: Catholic Shift to Obama

The rap on Obama during the primaries was that he couldn’t win because he struggled with Catholics. Apparently, he got past that. Early exit polls indicate he won 54% of the Catholic vote compared to 45% for John McCain….

Obama Luring Rest Belt Evangelicals But Not Southerners

Obama seems to have made far more progress with Born Again Christians in rust belt states than in the South. Based on preliminary exit polls: Florida: 78%-20% (McCain-Obama) Virginia: 78%-21% Ohio: 70%-29% Indiana: 66%-32%

BREAKING: Weekly Churchgoers vs. Occasionals

One thing that puzzles me about these numbers: Obama’s progress among Catholics is with those who don’t attend mass weekly. But among Protestants, he improved among those who do attend weekly. One possible theory: abortion. Mass-attending Catholics are more likely…

Lies, slander, personal defamation on the net.. Be warned

Who are you to falsely judge another man’s servant now..     (Rev 3:19 KJV)

 

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.   Acts 20:18

 

And when they arrived he said to them: You yourselves are well acquainted with my manner of living among you from the first day that I set foot in [the province of] Asia, and how I continued afterward, Acts 20:19 Serving the Lord with all humility in tears and in the midst of adversity (affliction and trials) which befell me, due to the plots of the Jews [against me]; Acts 20:20

How I did not shrink from telling you anything that was for your benefit and teaching you in public meetings and from house to house, Acts 20:21 But constantly {and} earnestly I bore testimony both to Jews and Greeks, urging them to turn in repentance [that is due] to God and to have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ [that is due Him].    https://postedat.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/oppressors-or-bullies-are-always-unacceptable/

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Speaking in tongues is both a personal even, praying in tongues but also a public event.. The purpose of tongues with interpretation in public is twofold. One purpose is to provide a sign for unbelievers that they might believe. The other purpose is to edify the church body. Tongues with interpretation declares the mighty works of God, exalts His name, and prompts the believers to worship Him in spirit and in truth. It also explains and calls for commitment to the church’s present mission, and neither of these gifts have even ceased in operation these last days now too..
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Also what is the advantage of “praying in tongues” in one’s private prayer life?
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There are at least four uses or purposes of unknown tongues, according to the New Testament: (1) as the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19:6); (2) as a gift to edify the church when the tongues are interpreted (1 Corinthians 12:10); (3) as a sign for unbelievers that they might believe (1 Corinthians 14:22); and (4) as a God-given provision for effective prayer and praise (1 Corinthians 14:2, 14). In all these cases, tongues is the same in essence, but different in purpose.
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Praying in tongues during private devotions is an additional ministry of the Holy Spirit. Many believers today testify that praying in tongues greatly enriches their spiritual lives. The limitations of intellect are overcome as the Holy Spirit quickens the human spirit in glorious expressions of worship and adoration. The quandary of limited vocabulary and the inability to express feelings and concerns of the soul disappear as a Spirit-imparted language flows out from the heart. It is as if heaven and earth, time and eternity, God and man all compress together in a glorious act of worship.
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Also since the Holy Spirit has authentically inspired next the interpretation of the tongues now , the revelations given will never contradict the teachings of the Bible. If the interpretation is contrary to Scripture, it is out of order and must be ruled so. The Bible is the measure by which all speaking in tongues utterances as well must be judged. While spiritual gifts are divine in their origin, but they are entrusted to people, and they must operate in a way that is consistent with biblical teaching   1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order..

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Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  bad persons, bad , pastors, leaders, elders, Corporations too who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,.

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Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over..,

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I really get a big chuckle in hearing from all those pretend, rather hot air speaking in tongues experts who themselves admit they cannot speak in tongues.

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(Jer 2:19 KJV)  Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

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(Jer 3:22 KJV)  Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

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(Jer 5:6 KJV)  Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.

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( Is 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the Lord, and He will have love, pity, {and} mercy for him, and to our God, for He will multiply to him His abundant pardon. 8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.

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Is 56:10 watchmen are blind, they are all without knowledge; they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; dreaming, lying down, they love to slumber.

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Having clearly not an exaggerated emphasis of your own self importance, being totally in  control is part of a cluster of behaviors that can be labeled as compulsive and generally characterized by perfectionism, extreme tendencies,   and a real cover-up for your fear of having your own sinful flaws exposed. You are exposed now still too..  are grossly in error, in need of professional help, good pastoral counselling.. Verbal abuse is always unacceptable too. So are the Bullies now too. If you are a   Control freak, a bully, liar, basher  you are not only still unrealistic, immature, immoral person  but you  have a serious personality disorder. You are a menace, plus a real danger to yourself and to others Here also is what I know for sure, the older the person is the more extreme, more severe, the more difficult the punishment has  to be on them to cause them to personally to change in their own  negative ways, for they are too set in them now too. Control freaks or Bullies, abusers, wrongfully do cause  others stress so they can maintain a false sense of order. These people themselves firstly are are still riddled mostly with anxiety, fear, insecurity, and anger. They’re very critical of themselves their lover and their friends, but underneath all that still too that supposedly perfect outfit and great body is a mountain of real unhappiness, unresolved guilt, disturbed person.   I have a whole site that deals with true and false Pentecostal bashing .. There was so much emotional rubbish, lies, distortions in  critiquing the Pentecostals  that they were not at all  worth reading, it rather  gives a real bad impression to the readers about the writers, posters firstly. Why are they so filled with demons and hate? The devil is the one sided accuser of the brethren and too many writers there clearly had fell into his hold.  it seems these writers were not real Christians to start of with, they were  clearly ignorant, or ashamed off the Bible, God’s words. For certainty also because of the demonic opposition the devil will try to discourage you from finding out reading about the Holy spirit, Charismatics, Pentecostals and the Bible. I know I have experienced this myself the last  40 years. So my sites will reflect, show you what I have learned, found out on these subjects for a start.

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/distortions-lies-false-critiques/

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One thing for sure I have observed that where there are sheep now there are also many wolves, for where there are real Christians there are also the  the pretenders amongst them now, today as well. The pretender, imposter, wolf in sheep clothing do now show up for all kind of reasons even to seduce the sheep. They masquerade as pastors,, assistant pastors, elders, youth ministers, Bible college students now as well. But a close examination daily reveals these pretender, imposter, wolf in sheep clothing really have not changed, they are self centered, unloving, tend to lack compassion and consideration for any others. “For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity” (Acts 8:20-23).

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(Acts 20:29 KJV)  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

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(Acts 20:30 KJV)  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

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(Acts 20:31 KJV)  Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

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(Acts 20:32 KJV)  And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

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(Acts 20:33 KJV)  I have coveted no man’s silver, or gold, or apparel.

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(Acts 20:34 KJV)  Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

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(Acts 20:35 KJV)  I have showed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

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The pretender, imposter, wolf in sheep clothing even the Judas Iscariot is noted in history as the one who betrayed Him (Jesus). Yet Judas was first numbered among the Twelve apostles (Luke 6:13, 22:3; Acts 1:16-17 numbered with us), “chosen” by Christ Himself,  so how next did the “Apostle Judas” became also the traitor? What drove him to his immoral acts. The reality is that he had never died to self too.Too many a persons also do falsely deny who they really are, hiding behind prestigious or pretentious facade that they are unknown, cannot be discerned, read, known cause they are too complex.. you can fool some of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

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Jesus himself said a person can be known simply by what they do. good people do good things.. and bad people tend to do bad things.

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(Mat 7:18 KJV)  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

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(Mat 7:19 KJV)  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

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(Mat 7:20 KJV)  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

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(Mat 7:21 KJV)  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

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(Mat 7:22 KJV)  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

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(Mat 7:23 KJV)  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

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(Mat 7:24 KJV)  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

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(Mat 7:25 KJV)  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

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(Mat 7:26 KJV)  And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

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(Mat 7:27 KJV)  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

. Is 57:4 Against whom do you make sport {and} take your delight? Against whom do you open wide your mouth and put out your tongue? Are you not yourselves the children of transgression, the offspring of deceit–

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The WRONGFULLY STILL Unrepentant  bully’s problem is that he or she is one of those bad persons  who only feels truly alive when voicing hostility and contempt for his “enemies.” Without that, he or she starts gasping for air. It’s his nature.. self-destructive” ..  clearly these immoral  Bully, Basher of others, Abusers of others has a disappointed, deflated ego, negative self worth,  most likely related to past unresolved guilt, as a result  of  that   the bully, he or she, tries falsely to   build  their ego up by bashing, hating others, by being an antagonists against  his proclaimed enemies, which too often also  is most people , for  he or she no longer trust anyone, and Abusers this is a common very typical approach, fact in the character build up of Bullies, Bashers, but their approach is futile, the subsequent feeling of self worth dissipates too quickly, are actually replaced by guilt,  and his ego, self worth likely needs to be recharged with new hate.. and is replaced with more and larger hatred of the others.  I have seen this type of wrong behavior   also  in religious   fundamentals evangelicals who promote hated towards Pentecostal Christians as well, and  now as well as the crooked pastor wrongfully  fighting for control over others. Public exposure and prosecution of these bad persons here too services everyone’s best interest.

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From: Franco Barone

Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:55 AM

Subject: Re: L’exposition du public et la poursuite des coupables-

Public exposure and prosecution of the guilty  No one during the church age is brought before “the council” for saying “Raca!” (numskull, empty-head, or fool). No one is in danger of judgment simply because he is angry with his brother without cause.

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My reply-   Slandering, lying about, calling a specific person false names, personal attacks,  even on any public forum is still unacceptable now even if you are a Christian, a Plymouth Brethren one now too.

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Franco you have  your false personal misinterpretations of the Bible as a false cover-up for your immoral acts on the net .. but Bullying and calling a person names such as a fool, crazy, or what ever is still an unacceptable immoral act according both to Canada’s courts and the Human Rights commissions now as well and is rightfully fully prosecutable as you can see in the references detailed. If you are still unable to properly read the Bible, do talk to a good lawyer and he will tell you the same thing      All Comments containing inflammatory material, lies, slanders, offensive language, personal attacks are not permitted and will be deleted…. Despite our best hints some persons do too often turn from the Christian ideal and cheapen the quality of discourse even for everyone else. Unfortunately, it is simply impossible to write a comprehensive set of rules forbidding every type of UnChristian behavior. No love so don’t write it.. The fact that this rule may not still forbid a certain type of post does not automatically make an uncivil post appropriate, nor does it imply that the administrators will next still approve of disrespectful behavior. Every persons has a responsibility to participate in a respectful manner, and to help foster an atmosphere of thoughtful discussion. In this regard, we strongly advise all persons to  have a little common decency. Do not post personal attacks or engage in name-calling against other individual on this discussion board. Even very mild personal attacks are forbidden. Will be deleted

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And some of the unacceptable responding bullies, bashers who try their false personal attacks on me now cause I had stepped on their toes, firstly they do not even know me well enough to make any kind of personal judgmental bashings  upon me never mind doing it now even in public too, and slander is what it is.. . Amazing how I tend to post the same response to the same related subjects on various sites I tend to visit , one site accepts the message and me,  but clearly the other one hates me and the message.. the response to me shows a lot about the responder.  

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Some Brethren persons  who write to me clearly have often said to me that they do not like the replies I post back on the net. I do not spam, I firstly write an email to no one unless they had written to me or have requested me to write to them. But I am free to write, in decency now too,  on whatever I want on the net  even about the unacceptable brethren abuses, Pentecostal bashers, haters.. like it or not. Life is not one sided where the crooks, perverts have the sole rights and no one else.

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“”From: franco barone  Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:26 PM   Subject: Re: Public exposure and prosecution of the guilty persons serves everyone’s best interest Your a child and have yet to put away your childish things.  You need to read your own words of who is accusing whom, on the internet.  Be assured he who thinks he standeth will surely fall, and how great is that fall.” .  So go ahead and prosecute you fool! What are you waiting for? ”

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My rightful reply Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:41 PM  Subject:

Re: L’exposition du public et la poursuite des coupables- Public exposure and prosecution of the guilty

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(Mat 5:22 KJV)  But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.  . Now you are adding to your continual  unacceptable slander of me by calling me a fool.. slandering me again.. contrary to the laws of Canada, the Charter rights, and what you do not honour now the laws of the country too, never mind God’s laws clearly as well.. And you say you want to me to go ahead and prove to the world that I have asked your RIGHTFULLY to repent, stop your  immoral acts. .. Well  I have already done that ..( I have also deleted your bad posts, slanders too)  but look again and do see the people I wrote too worldwide, Canada wide, Ontario, including Quebec, Canada .. Do see my posts posts about you on the net too..  .  as a Canadian I have legal, human rights, ask any lawyer now, cause you need one .. your OWN DISTORTED  interpretation of the Bible does not count for me, when clearly you falsely as we all can see FIRSTLY EVEN THAT  now do not practice it even.  Preach first to yourself FOR I would rather see you live it firstly and so would the rest of us. Do note I PERSONALLY   do not HAVE TO resort  to calling you  UNACCEPTABLE  NAMES to these discuss issues… YET YOU SIMPLY unacceptably now DO HAVE TO DO THAT. Is that an other  example of a CLEARLY bad  Brethren, dispensational Christian NOW?       . Public exposure and prosecution of the guilty persons serves everyone’s best interest..  I also rightfully do not accept any personal lies, slanders, abuses, personal attacks, defamation  quietly.

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Some people like to give it to others but next wrongfully cry, wrongfully do complain when they get it back..   . Be warned.  No I do not accept personal insults lies, abuse, slander of me from even so called Christian Brethren for It is a  prosecutable human rights courts offence in Canada even if it is done on the internet. Be warned now.. (Rev 3:19 KJV)  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. .  As even posted on the net now, on my many sites too,  I have already contacted 500 elected officials in Canada, all the major news editors and have lodged formal complaints now about the much too many lying, abusive brethren, and I have gotten response from 2 provinces, related  minister already and they are working on the matter  . ” You are a heretic, and you call yourself a Christian. .. You are a braggart and a bully. A false accuser of all true born-again believing Christians…  You are indeed a hypocrite. 50 years? You have learned nothing. …    You error in not knowing what you speak of, and it is to your shame for you do the LORD Christ Jesus an injustice.  Surely the dog has turned to his vomit. Diotrophes.”  

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Lies, libels, personal slanders, character assignations even from any  professing Christian persons now  are still unacceptable and full prosecutable

 

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Brethren sins shouted from the house tops and they do not like it. .  (Heb 10:24 KJV)  And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:  . BUT INSTEAD NAME CALLINGS. BASHING, is what they mainly do.. and are known for as well.  . I SHOULD RIGHTFULLY NOW MAKE A COLLECTION OF ALL THE LIES, DIRTY NAMES, SLANDERS, PLYMOUTH BRETHREN RESPOND WITH..GOD HIMSELF DOES NOT ACCEPT VERBAL, HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES, NEITHER DO I. THEY FIRSTLY SHOULD TAKE THE BEAMS OUT OF THEIR  OWN EYE FIRST.   https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/dispensationalists-it-seems-to-compensate-for-their-often-rejections/   http://witnessed.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/the-false-dispensationalists-dispensationalism/ .  Public exposure and prosecution of the guilty persons serves everyone’s best interest

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“Perhaps one of the greatest heresies of our day arises from a theological ignorance with respect to the Bible’s teaching on sanctification. While .. Many (Falsely) simply operate under the assumption that obedience, repentance, love for God’s law, and mortification of sin are unnecessary addendums to true faith,  reserved for a special class of “spiritual Christians”, yet still optional for those “carnal Christians” who embrace Christ as Savior but refuse Him as Lord.   How does (anyone,) Ryrie respond to the New Testament texts, especially in the gospels, which so obviously teach that both a change of mind and heart are necessary consequences of justifying faith? … While inconsistent dispensationalists can and do believe in the necessity of repentance, the logical conclusions of classic dispensationalism yield the kind of devastating errors which sees faith as nothing more than a change of mind with regards to the facts of the gospel.  ”  http://covenantgrace.blogspot.com/2008/02/some-of-puritans-believed-that.html

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Lip service Christianity is still not acceptable. Ongoing continual personal repentance  for sins  is also not optional.. but a necessary subjection even for http://startnow72.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/benny-hinn-makes-todd-bentley-looked-like-an-amatuer/#comment-999

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>>Grace said, on August 11th, 2008 at 11:33 pm   “the nonconformist” ..  he is very violent and abusive!

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(1 Cor 9:27 KJV)  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.  (Heb 12:9 KJV)  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?  . The Bible, New Testament, Jesus the apostles gives us clear warnings as to the characteristics of the type of persons who  even go out of their way to betray Jesus Christ, including even Judas one of the 12 apostles, the religious Jews, legalists and  Hypocrites, the Scribes and Pharisees such  as Saul , as well as materialistic oriented persons,  and sadly even the professing Christians like Apostle Peter. The betrayal of Jesus was wrongfully also next inflicted upon His Followers  including more  lies, slander, human rights violations, and it will go on today, unless someone opposes it, rightfully stands up against it.

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The ongoing wars- one sided Religious discussions Christianity – Bashers, Bullies, falsehoods, Hatred, liars, libel, Pentecostal Haters .   You can bully me, bash me, play on words too, even call me a liar, but that will not deny the truth of what I have experienced  the last 3 decades on the net and in many in churches now as well.. the truth that any  bad Conservative is not any better than a bad Liberal.. and professing Conservatives, professing Christians,  evangelical pastors included  who  themselves now wrongfully are too often now just as ungodly human right violators as any of the ungodly, secular  persons too. They also should first Judge themselves before they judge the others, Christians too like to judge others but not themselves. . Often I have noted, experienced on the web even that even the professing Christians are abusive, do try to dominate, do disrespect others, and falsely censure others, lie about and slander them as well. It is always still a personal choice that has nothing to do with their persons personal political or religious beliefs, experiences now too.

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I always find it very interesting how so many people, professing Christians even  like to talk about themselves and others, to post ON THE NET the supposed sins of others, but not their own sins..  REALLY HYPOCRITICAL STILL TOO. (Mat 3:8 KJV)  Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:  9   And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10    And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (Mat 7:3 KJV)  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5   Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.  . (Mat 7:14 KJV)  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26  And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

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Isn’t nice that according to the Canadian Charter of rights I too now can write to absolutely now any one I want to  still, all news editors, all politicians too,  and that if they  do not want to read my emails they  can just delete them too.. or they  can first take their  email of the net and stop requesting people to write to them. I would have thought that they too  knew that by now too.. funny.. What do any of them still think they or you are the only one who can tell, write and post the truths even on the net still? and the rest of us cannot?  . It seems you cannot trust the federal or the provincial, municipal  governments in Canada still..  do  we all do these days too do keep on getting media revelations of abuses, corruptions, lies etc.

 http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/toronto-councillor-adam-giambrone-lies/

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I do also  have to say I was amazed so readily myself. How in my last few decades of Canadian experiences how quickly the too apparent crooks it seems are the first ones who threaten to or do  sue, even how they do try to shut up the truth from the public exposure, a subject that I  have often written about..   . Our governments and the courts clearly are firstly very slow to enforce prosecutions of the really clearly bad persons such as the bad cops, bad civil and public servants, too many tax evaders, thieves, tax payer’s money abusers    and undeniably as well but what the very apparent crooks can too readily sue the others.. ..  falsely can attempt to suppress, obstruct  justice from being carried out?  . And there are  still too many for my liking in Canada  crooked professionals such as even crooked realtors, bad Real estate firms, bad Accountants, bad lawyers, bad Pastors and priests now too, bad cops, bad medical workers, bad civil and public servants, too many tax evaders, even too many  bad telecommunication, internet firms guilty of false, misleading advertising and customer abuses too such as Bell..

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/the-way-normal-business-is-supposedly-being-carried-in-canada/

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From: Bentley_Chris-MPP-CO

Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:01 AM

Cc: attorneygeneral@ontario.ca

Subject: RE: about the Pentecostal haters, bashers on the net presently..

Good morning: Thank you for taking the time to contact Chris Bentley’s Constituency Office.  I will bring your email to Mr. Bentley’s attention. Since your concerns are a matter for the Attorney General.  I have taken the liberty of forwarding your email to the Ministry of the Attorney General to be responded to.  If you would like to follow up with Mr. Bentley’s Toronto office directly please do not hesitate to contact (416) 326-2220 or 1-800-518-7901 attorneygeneral@ontario.ca.

Thank you again,

Ashley Conyngham Constituency Assistant Chris Bentley, MPP London West 8-11 Base Line Road East London, Ontario N6C 5Z8 Tel: (519) 657-3120 Fax: (519) 657-0368 Mobile: (519) 281-2153

 

do see also

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/misapplications-of-the-laws-in-canada/

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080717/national/internet_defamation

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/libel-2/

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/libel/

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/08/09/libel-on-the-net/

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/thedeezone-175228/

  http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/the-spin-game-evangelicals-and-their-leaders-pastors-do-play-now/

http://monergist.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/95-theses-against-dispensationalism/trackback/

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/dispensationalists-it-seems-to-compensate-for-their-often-rejections/   http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/bullies-free-speech/

https://postedat.wordpress.com/about/

Unacceptable Flaws In the Pearl of Great Price.

By Jerald & Sandra Tanner 

      In our new book, Flaws in the Pearl of Great Price, we have compiled some very important information concerning (Joseph Smith’s book of Doctrine called) the Pearl of Great Price, a book accepted by members of the Mormon Church (The LDS, and the FLDS but not the RLDS) as inspired scripture. It is, in fact, one of the four standard works of the church. Since most of the material contained in the Pearl of Great Price was supposed to have been given to the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith by divine revelation, it is considered more accurate than the Bible.

      The “Book of Moses,” contained in the first part of the Pearl of Great Price, purports to give an account of the Creation which God originally gave to Moses and later revealed to Joseph Smith. In the 1965 printing of Commentary on the Pearl of Great Price, by George Reynolds and Janne M. Sjodahl, page xi, we read: “we need go no further in our research than to compare the story of the Creation of the earth and Man, and the history thereof down to the time of the Flood as it appears in the Book of Genesis (Old Testament) with these same writings, unimpaired or unmarred by the incidents of time, contained in the Pearl of Great Price, the Writings of Moses. At first they both were the same; the one (Genesis) effaced by the wisdom and carelessness of men, the other as it was revealed by God through the Prophet Joseph Smith.”

      The second part of the Pearl of Great Price contains The “Book of Abraham.” It was supposed to have been written on papyrus by Abraham himself about 4,000 years ago! According to Mormon officials, this same papyrus fell into Joseph Smith’s hands and he began translating it in 1835.


The Pearl of Great Price also contains Joseph Smith’s “inspired translation of a portion of the book of Matthew, his own story concerning how God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ appeared to him, and how an angel from God revealed that it some gold plates were buried near his home. Smith “translated” these plates and published the contents under the title, the Book of Mormon.

The Pearl of Great Price concludes with Joseph Smith’s “Articles of Faith.” The Pearl of Great Price was first published in book form in 1851 by Apostle Franklin D. Richards. Prior to Richard’s compilation, portions of the text he used had been published in early Mormon publications. In 1880, the Pearl of Great Price was canonized and at that time became one of the four standard works of the church.

“DRASTICALLY CHANGED”

      One of the problems (The writer is soft peddling the nature of these heretical writings.) relating to the Pearl of Great Price is the serious changes (See if the tripe written by Joseph Smith were “Inspired” the Mormon leaders would have been terrified to alter a single word but by the fact that they have time and again alters major portions of this “Revelation” shows that they themselves do not believe for one minute these words are inspired , rather they believe that this book is their organizations charter that can be and needs to be amended from time t time)  that have appeared in the text since it was published in 1851. Like Paul Dunn’s stories, new elements have been added to the text which ARE NOT in the original handwritten manuscript when it was first dictated. The portion of the Pearl of Great Price which has had the most drastic alterations made in it is the “Book of Moses.” The Book of Moses is actually only a part of a far larger work known as the “Inspired Version” of the Bible. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie stressed that the Inspired Version was given to Joseph Smith by revelation:

     

“In consequence, at the command of the Lord and while acting under the spirit of revelation, the Prophet (Joseph Smith) corrected, revised, altered, added to, and deleted from the King James Version of the Bible to form what is now commonly referred to as the Inspired Version of the Bible (This is not the book of Mormon this is a separate Bible Translation written by a man who in court was proven to have no knowledge of Greek Hebrew much less  Egyptian)…. The first 151 verses of the Old Testament, down to Genesis 6:13, are published as the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price. But (Not what is in the bible – this text is purported to have been) restored by the Prophet (Joseph Smith) the true (Smith inspired) rendition contains about 400 verses and a wealth of new doctrinal knowledge and historical data…. the marvelous flood of light and knowledge revealed through the Inspired Version of the Bible is one of the great evidences of the divine mission of Joseph Smith.” (Mormon Doctrine, 1979, pp. 383-84)

 

Actually, the Inspired Version of the Bible has been the (a continual) source of much embarrassment for the Mormon Church leaders. It was never published during Joseph Smith’s lifetime. In fact, his wife, Emma, retained the manuscript and would not give it to Willard Richards, who had been sent by Brigham Young to obtain it (She with many of the early leaders stayed in Mo. And formed the RLDS – rejecting Brigham Young and the LDS as Heretics)(see History of the Church, vol. 7, p. 260). Mormon Church leaders were never able to obtain the original manuscripts of the Inspired Version from Joseph Smith’s widow. She, in fact, turned them over to the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS)--an offshoot of the Mormon Church. This was a great blow to the Mormon leaders because they considered the Reorganized Church to be an “apostate” organization.
To the chagrin of the Mormon leaders, in 1867 the Reorganized Church published Joseph Smith’s Inspired Version of the Bible. Brigham Young was very opposed to the idea of members of his church receiving the Revelation from an “apostate” organization. Apostle Orson Pratt, on the other hand, wanted to accept it, and this caused some conflict with President Young.


     
After the Inspired Version was published by the Reorganized Church, it became obvious that there were serious discrepancies between it and the chapters the Mormon Church (The LDS version) had published in 1851 in the Pearl of Great Price. According to James R. Harris, of the Mormon Church’s Brigham Young University, Brigham Young felt that the Reorganized Church’s publication was fraudulent (Despite them having the original notes which threatened the LDS’s legitimacy): “The minutes of the School of the Prophets indicate that President Brigham Young regarded the Revision ‘spurious’ and that he brought Elder (Orsen) Pratt to some level of agreement with his position.” (Brigham Young University Studies, Summer 1968, p. 374, n. 23) President Young, on the other hand, had “high regard” for the first edition of the Pearl of Great Price (see The Story of the Pearl of Great Price, by James R. Clark, p. 205). After President Young passed away, the church leaders completely repudiated his (Brigham Young’s) ideas concerning the accuracy (or inaccuracy) of these books, for they (The LDS) changed the text of the Pearl of Great Price (Their made up version) to agree with the Reorganized Church’s (RLDS version or the Pearl and the Joseph Smith’s bible translation) printing of the Inspired Version. In his M. A. thesis written at Brigham Young University in 1958, James R. Harris acknowledged that “every major change in the American edition [i.e., the 1878 edition of the Pearl of Great Price] appears in identical form in the Inspired Revision.” (“A Study of the Changes in the Contents of the Book of Moses From the Earliest Available Sources to the Current Edition” typed copy, page 225)
The fact that the Mormon Church leaders changed the text of the Pearl of Great Price to agree with the Inspired Version indicates that
they felt the “apostate” Reorganized Church had a more accurate version of the scriptures than they did! They, therefore, put more trust in the publication by the Reorganized Church than they did in the word of President Brigham Young, the 2nd Prophet, Seer and Revelator of the church. It is rather interesting to note that Brigham Young died in 1877, and before a year had passed the new altered edition of the Pearl of Great Price was published. It is also significant that Orson Pratt, the apostle who disagreed with President Young over the accuracy of the Inspired Revision, was the editor of the 1878 edition.


     In any case, in his M. A. thesis, James R. Harris freely admitted that the text of the Pearl of Great Price was “drastically” altered in 1878:

 

      “Orson Pratt was the Editor of the first American edition of the Pearl of Great Price… The American edition was more drastically changed than any previous publication by a member of the Church.” (“A Study of the Changes in the Contents of the Book of Moses typed copy, p. 226)

     

      “From the standpoint of omissions and additions of words, the American Edition is the most spectacular rendition…. Some of tire words added to the American edition had impressive doctrinal implications.” (Ibid., pp. 224-25)

     

      Although James R. Harris admits that serious changes were made in the Pearl of Great Price, he feels that Joseph Smith himself made the changes in manuscripts he worked on before his death. In other words, he believes that when the Mormon leaders changed the text of the Pearl of Great Price in 1878, they were bringing it into conformity with changes Joseph Smith made in the manuscripts during his lifetime. Richard P. Howard, Church Historian for the Reorganized Church, has released information which gives support to Dr. Harris’ idea. Howard, who has had access to the original manuscripts, shows that there were a number of different manuscripts involved in the production of the Inspired Version of the Bible and that Joseph Smith often revised his own revisions and left the manuscripts in a very confused state: “Many texts reveal that the process was not some kind of automatic verbal or visual revelatory experience on the part of Joseph Smith. He often caused a text to be written in one form and later reworded his initial revision. The manuscripts in some cases show a considerable time lapse between such reconsiderations…

     
“A considerable number of places in NT #2 [as Mr. Howard now numbers the manuscripts] show that initially Joseph Smith considered certain texts in the King James Version to be either correct or in need of slight revision, but that on later consideration he decided to amend them further. Since the manuscript pages were already written and filled to the extent that the later corrections could not be included, the problem was solved by writing the text out on a scrap of paper and pinning or sewing it to the appropriate manuscript page.” (Restoration Scriptures: A Study of Their Textual Development, 1969, pp. 93, 96)

      “Therefore OT #13 represents a third draft manuscript of… Genesis 1-7, a second draft manuscript of Genesis 8-24:42a, and a first draft manuscript of the remainder of the Old Testament, although revised considerably by interpolations written in later years between the lines and on separate scraps of paper pinned to the manuscript pages.” (Ibid., p. 106) “…the manuscripts indicate rather clearly that Joseph Smith, Jr., by his continued practice of revising his earlier texts  as many as three times, demonstrats that he (Joseph Smith) did not believe that at any of those points of rerevision he had dictated a perfectly inerrant text by the power or voice of God…. It is thus unnecessary and could be misleading to appear to claim ‘direct’ revelation in the determination of the entire text of the Inspired Version as the preface written for the 1867 edition apparently implied.” (page 151)

     

      Richard P. Howard’s admission that Joseph Smith rerevised his earlier text “as many as three times” is certainly a serious indictment against Joseph Smith’s work and plainly shows that his “Inspired Version” is anything but inspired. The fact that he could not make up his mind shows that he was tampering with the Scriptures according to his own imagination rather than receiving revelation from God. Mormon writer Truman G. Madsen also admitted that Joseph Smith “often revised a passage, later added to or amended it, and then, in a third attempt, clarified it further.” (Improvement Era, March 1970, p. 70)

     
The many changes that had to be made in the “inspired” renderings found in the Pearl of Great Price tend to undermine confidence in Joseph Smith’s work. As we indicated earlier, the most drastic revision of the Pearl of Great Price was made in 1878. In our new book, Flaws in the Pearl of Great Price, we have photographically reproduced the original 1851 edition of the Pearl of Great Price and carefully compared it with the church’s official 1989 printing. All of the changes that have been made have been noted in handwriting. The reader, therefore, can plainly see all of the words that were added, deleted or changed.

MOSES OR JOSEPH?

      As one reads the first section of the Pearl of Great Price (the “Book of Moses”) the question arises as to whether the words were actually spoken to Moses by God over 3,000 years ago or if they came from the fertile imagination of someone who lived in the 19th century. To those familiar with the Bible, the phraseology of the document has the ring of ancient scripture. Unfortunately, however, it sounds just too much like the King James Version, which was first published in 1611. Many of the verses, in fact, have been plagiarized from the book of Genesis. We have used the Mormon Church’s own computer program, The Computerized Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to help us locate the verses which have been borrowed from the Bible. In Flaws in The Pearl of Great Price, Appendix 2, we show a large number of verses that have obviously been taken from Genesis. The most serious problem, however, is that material has also been taken from the New Testament. In our book, Covering Up the Black Hole in the Book Of Mormon, we have dealt with the presence of New Testament quotations in Joseph Smith’s Book of Mormon, and since the situation is analogous to that found in the Book of Moses, we quote the following from our book:

     

            “It is very clear from the contents of the Book of Mormon that while the author was not a trained Bible scholar, he was rather familiar with the contents of the King James Version of the Bible. Although Mormon apologists are reluctant to face the facts, the evidence shows that Joseph Smith had the ability and the Biblical knowledge required to write the Book of Mormon. According to Smith’s earliest account of his life, written in 1832, he claimed he began studying the Bible when he was only about 12 years old….9 (This is utterly incorrect Smith did not write the Book of Mormon Smith originally was hired on as a circus hand to work his sleight of hand for a scheme created by Judge Solomon Spaulding who also was a Lawyer, and Oliver Cowdery a prolific writer and newspaper editor of a half-dozen upstate New York  Newspapers.  The presence of these two men alone who become Joseph Smiths “two witnesses” and his chief “two prophets” alone should raise ones eyebrows. Judge Spaulding a lawyer appears to be the mastermind of the entire scam, and it appears that the man  had spent quite some time combing federal and state law of the day to see how for he could go with a religious con without he or his prophet Smith being able to be arrested.  And Cowdery was not only the scribe that was needed to pen the book of Mormon but this man was a publicist. he was the scheme’s Madison Avenue machine of his day to see to it that 1) their prophet got all the good press he could get with his connections. 2) he was also the man that dreamed up many of Smiths early photo-ops.)

     
“From letters and comments we have received, it is obvious that many believers in the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon do not have a correct understanding of
the plagiarism issue with regard to that book. They often point out that some portions of the Bible are similar or even identical to other portions and feel that this demonstrates there is no problem with the Book of Mormon using parts of the Bible. It is true, of course, that such similarities do occur. For instance, many of the words of Jesus are taken from the Old Testament. In Deuteronomy 8:3 the following words of Moses are given: ‘…man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth he live.’ In Matthew 4:4 these words are attributed to Jesus: ‘But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.’ Since we have evidence that the book of Deuteronomy was in existence before the time of Christ from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint translation of the Bible made in [the] third century B. C., it is obvious that Jesus could have quoted from it. There are, in fact, many quotations from it in the New Testament, and this is the very thing we should expect to find…. in the examples we have cited from the Bible, all of the cases of copying can be explained by simply stating the obvious fact that the authors used some known and available work. The problem with regard to the Book of Mormon, however, is that it (Purports to contain the words of) ancient Nephites making extensive quotations from works (Old Testament and New Testament books) that were not even in existence at that time (that these supposed Nephites of the book of mormon lived)   . In fact, in the 1st and 2nd books of Nephi, the writings of the New Testament are cited 600 years before they were written!…
“To those who really consider the matter, it should be obvious that the presence of many portions of the New Testament in the Book of Mormon is more
(than a little) out of place —These (New Testament Passages) words alone would be enough to prove the speech (The entire book or Mormon) a forgery.  

 

Further in the Book of Mormon we have also have Lehi quoting from the New Testament book of Revelation almost seven centuries before it was written! (The first quotation appears on the second page of the Book of Mormon and is dated ‘About 600 B. C.’ The book of Revelation is believed to have been written about A.D. 90.)
“It is clear that the author
(Spaulding Cowdery and Smith) of the Book of Mormon was holding a King James Version of the Bible in his hand when he (They) produced it. (The problem with these three men is try as they might they were not men of Scripture – so when they first got out of the box they needed some bible preachers to mark their teachings and they hit the jackpot with Parley Pratt, Simon Rigdon and Orsen who wrote their restorative gospel – it is interesting to note that their early bible preachers did not quote the book of mormon in their sermons or writings they stuck to the bible – they only spoke or the Prophet the golden bible and the restoration of tongues prophecy and gifts in their meetings)  

 

 He (The modern author fancying himself to be Lehi), therefore, could not have lived in 600 B.C.. When all the evidence is examined, it is evident that he actually lived in 1830 (the writer is referring to Smith)–some 2,430 years after Lehi was supposed to have fled from Jerusalem.” (Covering Up the Black Hole in the Book of Mormon, pages 75, 79-81)

 

      As we have already pointed out, Joseph Smith’s Book of Moses is also filled with material that has been plagiarized from the New Testament. Moses 6:52, for example, has quotations from a number of New Testament passages. Below we have set this verse in regular type and added similar material found in New Testament verses in bold type inside brackets:

       

      “52 And he also said unto him [Adam]: If thou wilt turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, and believe, and repent of all thy transgressions, and be baptized [and be baptized–Acts 2:38], even in water, in the name of mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth [only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth-John 1:14], which is Jesus Christ [which is Jesus Christ–I Corinthians 3:11], the only name which shall be given under heaven, whereby salvation shall come [there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved–Acts 4:12] unto the children of men, ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost [ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost–Acts 2:38], asking all things in his name, and whatsoever ye shall ask, it shall be given you [Whatsoever ye shall ask… he will give it you–John 16:23].” (Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 6:52)

     

      In Flaws in the Pearl of Great Price, Appendix 1, the reader will find over 150 parallels (quotes and references) between the New Testament (And even far more damning is the quotes in the book or Mormon are not from the ancient Greek texts but from the modern King James Bible translation.)  and the Book of Moses. There are undoubtedly other parallels that could be pointed out, but this should be sufficient to convince the reader of the modern origin of “Book of Moses.” All of the evidence points to the inescapable conclusion that the Mormon prophet was not working with an ancient text dating back to the time of Moses; instead he was borrowing from the King James Version of the Bible. Joseph Smith’s “Book of Moses” clearly bears all the earmarks of a spurious document and reminds us of the works of Paul Dunn. Like Dunn, Smith combined elements from more than one source to create his story of the early history of the world. He appropriated a large number of verses from the Old Testament, modified them to serve his own purposes and then added elements from a number of books in the New Testament.

     
In Mormonism–Shadow or Reality? we have a chart showing that there is a great deal of manuscript evidence for the Bible. Some of it, in fact, dates back even before the time of Christ! Joseph Smith’s Book of Moses, on the other hand, is without documentary support. The only handwritten manuscripts for the Book of Moses are those dictated by Joseph Smith in the early 1830’s.

      As we have noted earlier, the Reorganized LDS Church has the original manuscripts of the Inspired Revision. Richard Howard, RLDS Church Historian, spent a great deal of time examining these manuscripts and seems to have concluded that the “Christian” material and the idea of putting the narrative into the first person came from the mind of Joseph Smith:

     

      “Viewing these subjects as he did from the vantage point of his own Christian background, Joseph Smith quite naturally would have tended to read into the symbolic pre-Christian language of the Old Testament certain uniquely Christian meanings. Therefore the content of all three of the documents comprising OT #1… reflects the nineteenth century theological terminology of (Judge Spaulding Oliver Cowdery and)  the prophet Joseph Smith. For example, references to the Holy Ghost and to the Only Begotten–terms arising from the early Christian community–help one to see that even at this early stage of development the text in a sense represents Joseph Smith’s studied theological commentary on the King James Version of the early Genesis chapters of the Bible.

     
“This has been most difficult for students to perceive because of his practice, throughout the first… and the second… documents of OT #1, of phrasing the language in the first person singular, portraying God himself speaking to Moses the very words which, in turn, were apparently being apprehended verbally by Joseph Smith and dictated to his scribe in 1830, nearly three thousand years later. However, Joseph’s heavy reliance on the early seventeenth century Elizabethan English language and style of the King James Version throughout this second document makes this verbal inspiration approach to the language of the early Genesis chapters of his New Translation untenable. This becomes even more apparent when one considers the very complex, centuries-long process culminating in the King James text of 1611.” (Restoration Scriptures, page 77)

BOOK OF ABRAHAM

      As we have indicated earlier, the second part of the Pearl of Great Price contains the “Book of Abraham.” It was supposed to have been written on Egyptian papyrus by Abraham himself about 4,000 years ago! According to Mormon officials, this same papyrus fell into Joseph Smith’s hands and he began translating it in 1835. If the papyrus were really written by Abraham, its discovery was probably one of the most important finds in the history of the world. To say that the papyrus would be worth a million dollars would be greatly underestimating its value, for it would be older than any portion of the Bible.
For many years Joseph Smith’s collection of papyri was lost and there was not way to check the accuracy of his translation.
However on Nov. 27, 1967, the Mormon-owned Deseret News made a startling announcement that the collection had been rediscovered in the (New York) Metropolitan Museum of Art. The article went on to say: “Included in the papyri is a manuscript identified as the original document from which Joseph Smith had copied the drawing which he called ‘Facsimile No. 1’ and published with the Book of Abraham.” The importance of this find cannot be overemphasized; it, in fact, made it possible to put to Joseph Smith’s ability as a translator of ancient Egyptian writing to an absolute test.
Although the Mormon Church tried to slow down the dissemination of material with regard to the Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, within six months from the time the (New York) Metropolitan Museum gave the papyri to the (LDS) church, the Book of Abraham had been proven (to be) untrue! The fall of the Book of Abraham was brought about by the identification of the actual piece of papyrus from which Joseph Smith claimed to “translate” the book.
The identification of this fragment as the original from which Joseph Smith claimed to translate the Book of Abraham has been made possible by a comparison with Joseph Smith’s Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar–handwritten documents by Joseph Smith’s scribes which we photographically reproduced in 1966. Noted Egyptologists Richard A. Parker and Klaus Baer have translated this papyrus fragment and found that it is in reality the Egyptian Book of Breathings. (And Subsequently) other Egyptologists have (also) confirmed that It (Joseph Smith’s Papyri that the prophets claimed to be the book or Abraham) was nothing (of the sort) but the Book of Breathings. Even Mormon apologist Hugh Nibley has admitted this identification. In fact, he has even made his own re-translation of the text (ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics)  (see The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri: An Egyptian Endowment, p. 18-45).
It is obvious, therefore, that the papyrus Joseph Smith claimed was the “Book of Abraham” is (and at all times was) in reality an Egyptain funerary text (Papyri) known as the “Book of Breathings.” (This Papyrus) is a pagan document, which is filled with magical practices and the names of Egyptian gods and goddesses. It has absolutely nothing to do with,(and never had a single word in it about) either Abraham or his religion.
As in the case of the “Book of Moses,” Joseph Smith (simply) plagiarized extensively from the Old Testament in creating his “Book of Abraham.” He modified many of the verses which he lifted from the King James Version of the Bible.

The RDLS or as they now call themselves the “Community of Christ” reject the writings of Joseph Smith that are embodied in the Pearl of Great Price.  One would believe that that is somehow related to this glaring admission that the “Sacred Scroll that Joseph Smith Had received from an Angel and he only had a sketch of had been in fact hanging decade after decade in the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Apparently Smith and his henchmen had seen a photo of the scroll of sent someone in person down to New York City to make a copy of it.  Then they set to work gleaning bible passages and manufacturing a new book of the bible.  the bible” and palmed it off to his followers for the remainder of his life real books of the bible that were a show piece for his divine laws that were to govern all of the Mormon Church – then how can they still with a straight face say they believe Joseph Smith’s tale of how he obtained and came to translate the “Golden Bible” which he later hailed as the Book of Mormon?

The question comes if the RDLS can see that Joseph Smith lied in his reception of this text, if the RLDS can see that Joseph Smith and his cronies manufactured an entire book of 

 

The answer is that the leadership is damned if they do and damned if they don’t. If they admit that the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith was an utter fraud they stand to lose the entire ranch. And if they don’t confess the truth before God and Men they have accepted eternal damnation for the fake hollow church that they seek to shroud themselves with.  In truth these men are seven-fold the merchants and hirelings of the denominations that they falsely railed against for 175 years.  And they are just as evil and corrupt as their father Joseph Smith.

 

If these men and women had any love for God or their fellow-Mormons that are riding this ship down they would confess the whole thing – call for a week of fasting and prayer and say look we have a church we have really faithful and great people let us try to take this ship and do that which is right in the eyes of the Lord they could site Jeroboam the son of Nebat

           

Strange as it may seem, he used quite a number of the same verses he had previously incorporated into his “Book of Moses.” In many cases, however, he altered them in a different way than he had in his earlier work. Some of these changes were made because of his study of the Hebrew language, but a significant number were made because he had changed his views of the Godhead.
Toward the end of his life (June 16, 1844), Joseph Smith gave a speech in which he publicly taught that “the [Hebrew] word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the was through–Gods.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 476). The word Elohim is used many times in Genesis. It is found, for example in Genesis 1:3. It is interesting to compare this verse from the King James Version of the Bible with Joseph Smith’s Translation of the Bible with Joseph Smith’s “translation” in the books of Moses and Abraham. In the Bible we read: “And God said, Let there be light…” Joseph Smith changed this to read as follows in Moses 2:3: “And I, God, said: Let there be light…” Notice that Joseph has added the word “I,” thus making it even more apparent that the verse is referring to only one God. In the Book of Abraham, however, Joseph Smith completely reversed his position with regard to this matter, for in Abraham 4:3 we read: “And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light…” In our book, Flaws in the Pearl of Great Price, we photographically demonstrate how Joseph Smith continued to cast doubt on his earlier work (the Book of Moses) throughout the 31 verses of Abraham, Chapter 4. In this chapter Joseph Smith consistently translated the word Elohim as “the Gods.” In the same book we also show that Smith added elements from other sources into his Book of Abraham.
A good example is the fact that he put the “anti-black” doctrine, which was commonly held in his day, into the mouth of Abraham! Until 1978 the Mormon leaders banned blacks from the priesthood and would not let them be married in their temples. The Book of Abraham 1:21-27 was often used to support this discriminatory doctrine. The Book of Moses was also cited because it states that blacks were put under a curse.


While the Pearl of Great Price is filled with problems, the other two books of scripture which Joseph Smith produced are also laced with serious errors. Mormon apologists, of course, would like us to believe otherwise. Milton R. Hunter, for example, made this fantastic claim concerning Joseph Smith’s works:

 “The Prophet Joseph Smith produced for the world three new volumes of holy scriptures… and, in addition, he revised the Bible. No prophet who has ever lived has accomplished such a tremendous feat. There are only 177 pages in the old Testament attributed to Moses, while Joseph Smith either translated through the gift and power of God or received as direct revelation from Jehovah 835 [pages].” (Deseret News, Church Section, July 18, 1970, p. 14)
While we must agree that Joseph Smith produced a great deal of material that purports to be scripture, it does not appear that this material bears any evidence of divine inspiration. For those who would like to learn more about problems in Joseph Smith’s “scriptures,” the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, we recommend our books, Covering Up the Black Hole in the Book of Mormon and Major Problems of Mormonism. For a very detailed study of the changes, plagiarism and other problems found in the Pearl of Great Price the reader should have our new publication, FLAWS IN THE PEARL OF GREAT PRICE….

 

http://www.alaskandreams.net/ekklesia/Flaws%20In%20the%20Pearl%20of%20Great%20Price.htm

 Most Christians do not accept either the Mormons or the Jehowah Witnesses as being Christians, they are cults..