the posts the Lakeland Revival bashers seem to despise

Florida Healing Outpouring with Todd Bentley: 30 Reasons for Healing (16-30)

27 06 2008

First, Roy Fields is back!  Others leading has been moving, but there is something about him that changes the atmosphere.  Roy, welcome back.  Second if you are in Lakeland Fl on the 4th of July there will be free food. From 4-7pm, next Friday there be a celebration with free food.  This will also lead into a water Baptism service.  I am just thrilled for both of these events.  The first shows a desire to reach out to  host community and give back to those who have given so much.  As important, the second is another example of how Fresh Fire and Ignited are taking care and shepherding those who are making profession of faith under their leadership.

Another fun fact, there is now a medical doctor who is reviewing all the medical reports about healing.  The desire for accountability and integrity is great in Lakeland.   One of the assistants said there is a four step process for those who take the stage professing healing
1 Pastor volunteers from around the world, screen and test, those who claim to have received healing
2 This is then relayed to those who bring the person on stage, to ensure what is shared is consistent
3 After they are on the platform, a survey is filled out with symptoms, sign of healing and contacts.
4 FOLLOW UP!  1-2 weeks a phone call is made to see how they are doing.

Just some random quotes form Todd Bentley… he really does use the name of Jesus.
(This is just a sample, to show who the glory goes to)

“We are encouraging people to see doctors after healings.  I believe in medicine”
“It is the power of Jesus.  We are powerless without the power of the Holy Ghost
“Can we give thanks to Jesus for this.”
“We want to give all we can, leally, to the media to give the glory to Jesus.”
“We give all the glory to Jesus”
“Can we give Jesus all the glory tonight?”
while praying for healing, “Two new ankles in Jesus mighty name”

30 Reasons for Healings #16-30 (all verses NIV)

16. He does what he pleases – God is sovereign and healing happens because God chooses too.
17. Charitable Giving- (whole chapters but verses) Acts 9: 36 In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas), who was always doing good and helping the poor  and Acts10:2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.  Based on these verses miracles happens as a direct result of charitable giving.  It would seem that when we take care of the pour, God reaches and extra measure of the miracles.
18. The Gospel – Mark 16:19-20 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.    Healing is good news and,  according to Todd, the Gospel is the power of God as well as the message of salvation
19.  I am a friend of God’s – John 15:15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.  God hears the prayers of His friends.  What do you do for your “true” friends?  The deeper the intimacy with God, the deeper the friendship. Is God your friend, because there seems to be many who understand Jehovah but do not understand Abba.  Abba, is the characteristic of a deep personal relationship.
20. The Glory of God –  John 11:4 When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.”
21. The cures of the Law – Romans 8:2  because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Healings show that you free from the law of sin and death.
22. Desperation: Mark 5:27 When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak,  Sometime people need a touch so bad they push trough to get it.  “if only this small amount”  They are the ones who are desperate enough to reach out and get healed

23.  Connection locked up

24. Name of God – Exodus 15:26 He said, “If you listen carefully to the voice of the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you.”

25. Communion – 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.  This would seem to be a reason why you are not, but if it bring sickness maybe it bring healing (my thought on it, time was short so the last were real quick)

26.  Gift of the Spirit- There was no verse give to justify this, but 1 Corinthians12:9-109to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

27. The name of Jesus – Triune God, Jesus is God see #24

28.   The nature of the Holy Spirit – God creates when the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit moves.  It was after Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. That God said, “Let there be light.”  IF the Spirit lives with us, then he is moving, we should expect creation (new body parts is creation).
29. I am Saved – James 5:15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.  Faith is a gift of the Spirit and only saved people have this.  So salvation, brings faith, faith brings healing.  And, yes because Jesus forgave my sins.
30. Kingdom of God- Mathew 6:10 Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.  There is no sickness in the Kingdom, God preformes creation in His kingdom, there are miricals in the Kingdom, let it be so here

These are the second half of the 30 reasons, each with scripture refrances.  People you may not like Todd Bentley, but please be careful arguing against the word of God.  For those around Todd, let him know I said “thanks for the teaching, it has meant a lot to me.”

On a personal note:  I blew out my knee today, while walking down some stairs.  It hurt to move or even put pressure on it.  Tonight, during the broadcast, I WAS HEALED.  Proof of this, I wrote this whole blog standing up.

http://allenwilson.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/florida-healing-outpouring-with-todd-bentley-30-reasons-for-healing-16-30/

  the Lakeland critics   seem to be led by the devil..

Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
 
Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.
  
Do see also
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TOO OFTEN FALSE BASH OF PENTACOSTALS HEALERS

Our actions must be founded on what we know to be true from God’s Word, and that what is being directed us personally to each one of us by the Holy Spirit, and to do that we all still do need to continually in reality live a Holy Sprit filled life. it starts by daily reading the Bible, having a Bible devotional, and sadly even most pastors do not do that too.

Mark 16:17 And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;
Mark 16:18 They will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well.
Mark 16:19 So then the Lord Jesus, after He had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and He sat down at the right hand of God.
Mark 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord kept working with them and confirming the message by the attesting signs {and} miracles that closely accompanied [it]. Amen (so be it).

In contrast I read on the net what the bullies, bashers say about healings, miracles.
http://hiscrivener.wordpress.com/2008/06/28/faith-healers-could-encounter-a-setback-at-the-altar/
http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/george-banovs-blasphemous-prophecy-at-todd-bentleys-ordination/
It should be clear to most of us, the bad guys do not like my pages still.. it shows them in their true light.. the bad guys, bullies, bashers or what ever?

THE WAY MANY FUNDAMENTAL EVANGELICAL AND SUPPOSEDLY PROFESSING CHRISTIAN CRITICS TRY TO MAKE FUN AT OTHER CHRISTIANS IS SICKENING, A VERY POOR THEOLOGY AND IS SADLY NOW ALSO TYPICAL OF THE MUCH TOO OFTEN FALSE BASHING OF THE PENTECOSTALS TOO! It clearly makes me think that Satan himself is behind most of it still too.

And what about the Phony wars and phony peace by the professing Christians now too..
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/why-is-toronto-airport-christian-fellowship-angry-still/

As to bullies question to me.. ““are you ranting”… my how you still do like to bash, insult people.. you do not know them even well enough to falsely even try to judge them, your approach is quite immature and unspiritual too.. looking for a big fight cause someone had stepped on your sore toes.. http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/more-about-control-freaks/

I certainly hope you do not profess wrongfully to be a Christian to anyone, cause you do not act like it for sure… nor do I hope you abuse all the people like that who make a post here.. a sure way to next lose many people still too. Stay in God’s love and not rather in the flesh.. we may not agree, do have a right to differ, but we still do need to show love to the others. Need more input from me on the subject.. I have it detailed even on 5 internet sites.. ”

It is very clear that the much too many false Critics of the Pentecostals will try to grasp at any straws to falsely bash the Pentecostal and still try to justify their own immoral acts..

Any Christian being plagued with critics, opponents, unsubstantiated personal attacks too now, is really nothing new even to the past apostles, prophets , Jesus Christ himself who have face many similar bullies, groups etc., the devil is too ready an accuser of the Brethren, and tries to continually discredit any work of God even since the time of Jesus Christ himself now too even using inapplicable and distorted Biblical reasons and Bible verses now too.
I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings any of of the latter rain churches..

A MAJORITY OF THE CRITICS OF THE LATTER DAY REVIVALS, are too clearly their now too often diverting back wrongfully the topic discussions, and themselves making often personal insulting, unacceptable derogatory remarks and even their evidently their typical unChristlike bullying Reponses, self righteous, a superiority attitude, and what else? is not the right approach from anyone and it does continue to reflect poorly on ALL OF THEM STILL too…
THE WAY THEY THEMSELVES DO UNDENIABLY POINT FINGERS AT THEIR SELF DEFINED OPPONENTS, IN A JUDGMENTAL MANNER, UNLOVING, UNKIND, UNJUSTIFIABLE MANNER IS CLEARLY THE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE NOW TOO. And very revealing what they are firstly like themselves
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/understanding-me-and-others-better/

“I have read in the last month every wordpress site, and many others sites openly bashing, abusing, slandering the Florida revival, Todd, the latter day Pentecostals and yet to date I personally have not read, seen one valid criticism, decent presentation at all.. what a great shocker.. It all seems more like little immature, jealous kids still fighting over which one of them will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and who will be last.. what a real absurdity. I myself though have opposed Todd Bentley’s associated with some really bad pastors, trying to make money form selling items at the revival.. and his false application for divorce..

Hey Critics, Don’t get desperate but get real… like I have rightfully said I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings of any of the latter rain churches..

I did not say Charismatic supposedly churches.. cause we know those often mean rather the Catholic Pentecostals..

as to what the Bible says is only how you here do interpret it.. not the Holy Spirit.

I have been a Christian for 50 years and a Pentecostal pastor for the last 30 years, and I have attended the latter day churches too and often.. and specifically what about you? not the supposed others..

The Latter Rain movement was rejected by the AOG Pentecostals in 1948 as heretical… and what they are speaking for God now.. dream on.. There are other Pentecostal persons, denominations who support them, approve of them, me included. The AOG has it’s own falsehoods, and problems it needs to look at.. (Mat 7:3 KJV) And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

The Full Gospel Business Men’s fellowship uses a similar latter rain approach for decades now too.
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/laying-of-hands-impartation-breathe-of-the-spirit-anointings-anointed/

Too many persons are bashing other Pentecostals with clearly a hidden agenda, jealousy, and it is still the wrong thing to do so now too.. they are not even doing it in love or humility Cleary as required by the Bible now too. ”

Even because Evangelical Fundamentalism, dispensationalists, too often also replaces the worship of God , the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ with the sole worship of the Bible, bypassing the works of the Holy Spirit it seems, though most Fundamentalists will deny that. Liberalism, too, replaces the worship of God, and of the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ with the worship of something else. In the case of Liberalism, however, the worship of God was replaced by the worship of mere human reason , and both groups are not that far apart, for they are are in error.

Fundamentalists worship every word and letter in the Bible. Actually, they worship their own private re-interpretation of scripture (compare 2 Peter 1:20). This is the same error that the Pharisees fell into. They ended up worshiping Torah more than God, and, even more than Torah, they worshiped their own interpretations (and the interpretations of the elders) of Torah. (They still do so today, only now they have codified those traditions into the Talmud.) Likewise, so do Fundamentalists worship their own interpretation of Scripture. In both cases, “they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever.” (Romans 1:25).

Fundamentalists and Liberals too need to learn the truth of 2 Corinthians 3:6, “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” They need to seek God in SPIRIT and in Truth. Liberals need to learn the truth of John 4:23 (quoted above) and of John 6:63, “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.” They need to seek God in Spirit and in TRUTH.

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/12941.htm
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/hard-to-tell-the-difference/

Reality! These days it is too hard to tell the difference between secular persons and even evangelical pastors, elders, deacons too for they all seem to do the same bad things too.. adultery, alcoholism, gossip, slander, divorce..

And when I see shallow arguments of anyone still limiting today as to what God today can do, even through us, EVEN ABOUT HEALING, it makes me rightfully also think how shallow their Christian faith now really is.. they are still babies in the Lord and need someone to teach them the whole truth, the whole , full gospel too, for my God can do anything, Jesus is the same , yesterday, today and forever.

ON TOP OF THAT I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW SO MANY OF THESE SAME PERSONS PERSONS ALSO FALSELY RISE TO DEFEND SMOKING, WINE, ALCOHOL AS WELL AND WORK FULLY TO DENY IT IS SINFUL.. “Spurgeon was once asked when he would quit smoking cigars. He replied, “When it becomes a problem.” He was then asked, “When will it become a problem?” To which he replied, “When I smoke two at a time.” AND look at all the false justifications for Spurgeon’s sin.. and do see also alcoholism the unacceptable sin

When you talk about what the scriptures says you honestly should also point out that you mean it is how you now interpret what the scripture says.. cause too many of us read different things out of the same scriptures as we all do know firstly..

The people who also tell us to use only the Bible often still lie further to us.. they ask us also to use men’s commentaries, instead of the Holy spirit to next interpret the Bible.

(Eph 4:18 KJV) Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

I tend to look at both sides of the issues myself.. for that matter I have now been both non Christian, and Christian, both Baptist and Pentecostal, and both groups still do have major errors, weakness, inadequacies, and they now also have some good points too.. but still there is no such thing as a perfect denomination now as well

But one other thing often is clearly is evident to me visiting, reading the many so called Professing Christians sites mostly all telling us the supposed truth, postings often more with dishonest hidden agendas, poorly researched too, very biased now too.. It also seems to me they are also still are trying to convince themselves as to what is the truth is and no one else, they build up their own false straw arguments, and then do reply to their own arguments. It is generally too often now not an honest presentation, discussion of the topic they have presented. http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/todd-bentley-gets-annointed-by-special-oil-from-africa/
>>Pastors are going there by the droves. I know one personally. He went to Toronto to bring some of “it” back and he’s done the same thing with Lakeland. I think he thinks this will be the answer to filling the seats in his church, “http://Christian theology.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/depart-from-me-i-never-knew-you/

>Did he really tell you that or are you in truth distorting, lying, falsely judging him and many others cause you are a controlling person ?
I see nothing wrong in going there and I am real Christian now too

The nonconformer replied “I never knew you, is not a criticism by Jesus that the healings, miracles done by the person(s) were false.. but a true statement that they really never knew Jesus fully or personally, it seems to apply to you now firstly too. For no pastor, evangelist, healer IS PERFECT TO START OFF..

You are so sensitive to others being supposedly false, cause you clearly are false, now take the beam out of your own eye first.. Someone is wrong here and I don’t think it is that difficult (except perhaps for you) to determine who that is and that is you.. for you do twist Bible verses, slander, falsely quickly bash others to suit your own views..

Clearly Judas was an Apostle, better look at the definition of an Apostle, an Apostle is not an unchristian person.. and he was next replaced in the book of acts by another Apostle. The fact that Jesus knew that Judas would betray him does not mean he was not anointed.. but first better look at the meaning of the word anointed now.. one who evidences the Holy spirit.. with signs and wonders Acts 10:38

If you do not let the Holy spirit lead you as to what a verse actually means you are part of the Blind leading the blind now, forget trying to say the scripture cannot be wrong, rather you are wrong.. “You throw the term free will around as if it does not need to be defined. ” and yet you clearly in desperation rebuttal quoted back a verse that has nothing to do with one’s free will.

“You have contradicted now three times the Word of Jesus,” and what a further false and wrong, judgmental act on your part too, you so easily condemn a person whom you do not know, never met, another real Christian, a real Christian now over 50 years too, and I have been pastoring now for over 3 decades as a Pentecostal pastor too. So get a real life. Really do get Jesus.”

Why is it so many people try too limit the power of God, and they work so hard to try to tell us what God can and cannot do today.. for sure, definitely it is not only cause they are spiritually immature, have a hidden agenda, are promoting themselves, or they are unoriginal parrots who repeat what others have said , but it is often still mainly because Satan for sure is behind all this too.
https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/discern-it/
Evangelical fundamental parrots often need to quote someone else cause they do not know the Holy spirit well enough to let him lead them, even the truth about healing. I SPEAK FOR MYSELF. http://pbulow.tripod.com/healing.html
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/64/

Is 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no one else; there is no God besides Me. I will gird {and} arm you, though you have not known Me,

(Jer 32:27 KJV) Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks, persons, civil and public servants, politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,

Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.

I undeniably could not help but notice on even the web too how supposedly British religious clergies, scholars, Christians, falsely also do bash American Pentecostal revivals? It is not being done out of jealousy too?

http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/it-is-not-good-for-the-man-to-dwell-alone/

I have been on the net for over 2 decades, and I have thousands of readers regularly reading my posts. Hey I too have often said that there are many professing bashers, bullies, liars now even on the Christian internet and they think they alone can make the rules, enforce the rules on others, and that is too bad for them too for they need to grow up.. and to firstly get used to the right of free speech of others, other’s right to be heard and to male their own posts .. I only have about 30 internet sites written often for these bad hypocritical Christians now too so hopefully they too will learn the truth about themselves.. too bad guys do not like me to use my right of free speech.. so what else is new.. they by their bullying, control freak approach clearly show to all what hypocritical Christians they rather are! They are not humble servants of Jesus for sure.

isn’t it great that we all can have the same right to make a post now and the same right to have it read by others now too?

http://witnessed.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/fundamental-evangelical-and-supposedly-professing-christian-critics/

Jews and their own need of Salvation by Jesus Christ still too

All Israel Shall Be Saved?

by Steve Wohlberg

Romans 11:26 says, “And so all Israel will be saved.” What does this mean?

Obviously, it doesn’t mean every Jew will be saved. In fact, the same chapter says God hopes to “save some of them” (vs. 14). Judas was a Jew, yet we know he will be lost for betraying Christ. Jesus called him, “the son of perdition” (John 17:12). Jesus told many Jews, “If you do not believe I am He [the Messiah], you will die in your sins” (John 8:24). Not every Jew believes in Jesus Christ, thus many will “die in their sins” and be lost.

Many Christians today interpret Romans 11:26 as applying to the end of the seven-year tribulation when Jesus appears in the clouds at His Second Coming. In other words, they don’t apply the verse to all Jews throughout history, but only to “all Jews” who are alive at the end. Supposedly, at the end of the tribulation, all remaining Jews in Israel will look up, see Christ coming in the clouds, realize He is the true Messiah, believe in Him, and thus “All Israel will be saved.”

This is a false teaching, as I will attempt to show.

  1. First, the context of Romans 11 is not the Second Coming.
  2. “There is no partiality with God” (Romans 2:5-11). It would be an act of partiality to save “all Jews” at the end, but not “all Jews” in history. The idea is, “When all final Jews see Christ coming in the clouds, then they will believe.” But this would give those final Jews a supposedly irresistible opportunity to believe in Jesus Christ which past Jews have not had. Nor would this be fair to “all Gentiles” living at the end. Why would God save all Jews at the end but not all Gentiles? All Gentiles will see Jesus coming just like all Jews.
  3. When Christ finally appears in the clouds, IT’S TOO LATE TO BELIEVE IN HIM. Rev. 22:11,12 says that before He comes in the clouds, all decisions have already been made. Jesus said it will be like Noah’s day (Mat. 24:37-39). In Noah’s day the door of the ark closed before the flood came (Gen. 7:16). When the flood came, it was too late. To save all Jews AT THE SECOND COMING would be like saving all those outside the ark WHEN THE RAIN STARTED FALLING.
  4. When Jesus comes in the clouds, this is the time of judgment upon ALL unbelievers who don’t know God nor obey the gospel (2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14,15).

So what does this mean, “All Israel shall be saved”? First of all, Romans 9:6 says there are two Israels. one is an Israel according to the flesh (Romans 9:3,4) and the other is the Israel of God (Galatians 6:14-16). The Israel of God is composed of both Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:29). Gentiles who believe are grafted in. They become part of the “same body” with believing Jews (Eph. 3:6). Paul calls this unity of believing Jews and Gentiles, “the mystery of Christ” (Eph. 3:4).

The immediate context of Romans 11:26 is vs. 25. When “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” then “all Israel will be saved.” Or, to be exact, “And so all Israel will be saved.” In other words, the coming in of the fullness or total number of the Gentiles results in “all Israel” being saved. Paul’s idea seems to be that when all Gentiles (totally, throughout history) have come in, that is, have been grafted into the Vine, they, uniting with all Jews who have become believers, will form the total number of the saved. Paul also reveals that when Gentiles come in, God can use this to motivate some Jews to believe (verses 11 & 14). Vs. 25 calls this whole thing, “this mystery,” which we have already proven to be the “mystery” of both Jews and Gentiles being united in one body through Christ (Eph. 3:4,6). Vs. 27 says all are saved because Christ takes away their sins through His covenant, which must be the New Covenant, which applies to all believers, Jew and Gentile. Thus the “all Israel” that is saved is the total group of believing Gentiles and Jews combined.

The “all Israel that is saved” does not apply to all Jews throughout history, nor can it apply to a select favored group who become instant believers when Jesus Christ comes crashing down through the sky. By that time, it is too late to believe.

do see also https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/who-rules-your-rulers-god-himself/

http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/the-2-promised-returns/

Messianic Judaism today

00JEWISH
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
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Note these truths.. No where in the New Testament does it say help the Jews get back their promised land, help the Jews to go back to their promised land, help the Jews to steal the land from Palestine.. rather on the contrary Jesus had said..  Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
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Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
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Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
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Today’s Jews are too quick to associate with the Promised Land of Joshua’s time. However, as per the conditions of the Bible , the New Testament and even the establishment of the State of Israel by the United Nations in 1948 it now raises many valid questions about that relationship validity. Still the state of Israel is big enough for both the Jews and Muslims to live together in peace too. So do all grow up and smarten up up. (Psa 133:1 KJV) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
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In modern theology “supercessionism” is the term used to describe the theological position  expressed since the sdays of the arly Christian   church and it’s theologians Justin Martyr and Irenaeus t the Church is now the sole  the “true” or “spiritual” Israel.  All of the  past  promises that God gave to Israel now  apply to the Christians only, not the Jews of Judaism anymore.
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God had clearly even promised to return Israel back to their land  and now He has done so twice for the 2 previous dispersions  from Israel but there is no such promise for the 3rd dispersion from God by Jesus Christ or the Apostles in the whole New testament.. Many people when dealing with the topic of Israel falsely stop in the old Testament, and excluded falsely what the New testament has to say about Israel…  God loved the Jews and had a plan for them and that plan has been completed in Jesus Christ. The Promised land now is his to do what he wants with it..And the answer to all questions firstly  about the past promises made to the Jews including the Land  in the Old and not the new Testament is that the man, the Jew, Jesus the  Christ, who  inherited all those promises. He was  physically a Jew! The genealogies end with him. The Bible , the New Testament assures us that God has fullfilled the vows He made to the Jews:   . . the gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Romans 11:29). God told Abraham, “. . . I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you, and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 12:3). This promise to Abraham, and to the chosen descendants through Jacob, has never been repealed. Indeed, God’s vow  here has been fulfilled in history  through Jesus Christ God’s Word did  not return void; it did  not return without accomplishing what God desires and without succeeding in the matter for which it was sent, Isaiah 55.  In the New Testament, unlike in the Old Testament, any person can be Abraham’s child, without circumcision, and by faith in Christ Jesus. This vital Christian concept is not apparent in the Torah as it is in Paul’s epistles. The Scriptural emphasis for Christians should, therefore, be in the New Testament where we will learn what the Lord and his apostles taught:
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He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit (Gal. 3:14).
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GOD NOT ONLY KICKED THE JEWS OUT OF ISRAEL IN 70 AD.. BUT BECAUSE OF JESUS CHRIST HE CHANGED THE WORLD’S CALENDAR, PROCLAIMING HIS NEW ERA AND TODAY IS 2013 AD, AFTER THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST
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The blessing given to Abraham comes to the non-Jews (Gentiles or Greeks) through faith in Christ Jesus. Natural ancestry doesn’t help or hinder. It is by faith in Messiah Jesus that we receive the promise of the Spirit and become God’s children. Do not be deceived by those that magnify Jewish feast days, ancestry, customs, the Saturday Sabbath and try to get you to observe the law of Moses. They might claim they are just like the early Christians but they are not as has already been proven.
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We are called to be Christians and not reformed Jews..
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We all do need to study the Bible more seriously.. to be Holy Spirit filled now too
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Most people have never even firstly had studied, read what the Bible actually says nor have they been taught by the Holy Spirit firstly, not even many preachers. They are mostly parrots repeating what they heard others say..
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(1 Tim 1:7 KJV) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
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(Heb 5:12 KJV) For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
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 The people magnifying and practicing the Law of Moses are claiming to reestablish the early church, but the truth is they are dangerously deceived and deceiving others by their teachings.
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Imagine this many false preacher, false teachers, false prophets are falsely prophesying a glorious future of Israel with a pick and chose bible verse approach still, in fact that this nation is still ungodly and has rejected their sole Messiah Jesus Christ.neglecting to state God’s warnings and  full prophecies about Israel.  Jeremiah 23:39 ”  I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.”
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(Rom 10:1 KJV) Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.  Most Messianic Jews will still go to hell if they have not abandoned their false practice of Judaism..
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Even Messianic Jews with their false Judaism have  clearly falsely diverted from being merely Jewish followers of solely Jesus Christ, It can be said to be now an undeniable   cesspit of Jews hating Christians, the church and Jesus Christ still and they are still wrongfully following Judaism..They never once do they like to mention  the blatant judgment that God will pour out on Israel for its idolatry , rather falsely stating that  “ Israel remains God’s elect , chosen to bring his blessing upon the rest of humankind .”  Talmudic Jews and United Nations’ Masons are looking for God’s blessing upon the rest of mankind . They are deceiving themselves and are aided and abetted by their own false teachers.. Though mankind’s blessings came from the Jews , so will all its curses . If you do not believe this you had better read your Bible . These people do not reveal or revere the real Jesus . If these Messianic Jews ever do these things I will believe they are true Christians . This group is nothing less than a fifth column deceiving supposed Christians and Jews who may have a real interest in Christ ;
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 Satan wants you to think of the verse “ and so all Israel shall be saved “ , which means that all who trust Christ as Savior and Lord , not any unbelieving Jews .
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Christians and  the current non-Christian Jews also do worship different gods ,  The Jews do not, did not  truly honor Christ as the promised Messiah , but are looking for another that will come in his own name . The Talmud  itself speaks of absolute mockery and hatred for Christ and Christians.
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Only a small remnant of remaining Jews will accept Christ after he has poured out his wrath upon them for their constant rejection of him .
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Messianic Jews do falsely want us all to believe that Jesus remains firmly connected to unsaved Jewish people . and that Jerusalem is still “that great city “ , but he has temporarily forsaken them because they forsook him . The Same attempt is made on when these  deceivers say that  Jewish people are still God’s chosen people . But an unbelieving Jew will go to the same hell that an unbelieving Gentile will go to . if you are a Christian, do you believe that the Jews go to Hell?  the Christian answer will be “yes, anyone who doesn’t accept Jesus as their saviour goes to hell.”  I think the more interesting question is, when did  most of Jews stop worshipping God? Before or after Jesus was born? Before and after..Who now really had changed? God or the Jews?;
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William J. Beausay reveals the heresy of  “ apocryphal writings .“
Howard Silverman reveals the heresies of  unbiblical  rabbinic literature .
Henri L. Goulet reveals the heresy of Jewish apocalyptic Literature and explains clearly what is taught  about ancient rhetoric , which is probably unbiblical and perhaps Talmudic .
Elliot Klayman reveals the heresy of Rabbinic Literature and its Talmudic association .
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Do they believe the Noahide laws to be “ the bedrock society from the dawn of civilization ?“  If so this is more evidence proving their satanic deception . 
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 There is still a  “ Very Serious Problems Spiritual  With The  Messianic Jewish Congregations .” as they clearly are Unchristian..
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THE LYING Messianic Jews, and the Seventh day Adventists, Judaizers WHO PREACH THE LAW OF MOSES. AND PARTIALS TRUTHS  WITH  NEW TESTAMENT BIBLICAL DISTORTIONS ARE NOT THE REAL CHRISTIANS WHO WILL GO TO HEAVEN, BUT ARE THE NON CHRISTIANS WHO WILL GO TO HELL EVEN WITH THE UNSAVED JEWS WHO REJECTED JESUS  CHRIST THE MESSIAH.
 
“Mat 27:25  Then answered all the people, ( the Jews)  and said, His blood be on us, and on our children”. Clearly the Jews falsely had rejected Jesus Christ and his salvation of them so God he next rather poured out his salvation upon all of the non Jews
 
Messianic Jews and the Seventh day Adventists, Judaizers still do falsely teach that we must all abide by all the necessary “laws” of the Holy Bible whilst also keeping all the scriptures of Jesus commandments . The use of the word “laws” in the Old Testament Bible, specifically does specially mean the Mosaic “laws”, or the “laws” of the Torah, all the “laws” of the first 5 books of the Bible. Also when Jesus refers to the “law” he himself now means all of the 613 “laws” of the Old Covenant. This, of course, includes the Ten Commandments but is not limited to them. But the old covenant “laws” themselves were only valid until the coming of Christ firstly. True Christians do not mix the Old and New Covenants “laws”, laws as defined by the New testament, nor do they rightfully now support any of the Judaizers and their “laws”, all those persons who want to keep the Torah “laws” and just add Jesus to it. Today the entire Old Covenant “laws” was to be casted out by the Christian but we must all still follow His new teachings that are valid in the New Covenant as per (Galatians 4:21-31). The New Covenant teachings of Jesus did not include Sabbath-keeping “laws”and many other “laws”of the now obsolete Torah. True Christians believe that the “laws” has been completely abrogated and replaced with the Law of Christ.; Messianic Jews and the Seventh day Adventists, Judaizers do still try to uphold invalid laws, part of the Bible   falsely do draw people away from the truth of Christ. 

   
 The only main portion of the Bible that you really need to read, to follow  is the New Testament because we are no longer under Old Testament covenant, law  –  essentially the   the New Testament replaces the basic requirements of the  Law and the Prophets of the Old Testament.  Believers should still embrace the whole Word of God but now they do not follow the non applicable old testament laws, rituals. The Old Testament has been superseded by the New Testament. We are not under the old testament laws but under those laws  solely in the new testament… the law of the spirit..(Rom 8:2 KJV)  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/criticism-of-israel-is-not-anti-semitic/
 
The majority of Christians have often accepted the fact that Jesus of Nazareth–the founder of their religion, their Messiah, as being the promised original Jewish Messiah too, and also as the second part of the Trinitarian God–was God himself and thus he Jesus not only was a Christian but indisputably a Jew as well, but he God is, was not a Jew.. so being a Jew does not mean you make it to Heaven without accepting Jesus death on the Cross.. John 13:8  Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. :9  Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
 
“The Ascendance of “Messianic Judaism” in the Context of “Hebrew Christianity”  http://mcu.edu/papers/mess_jud.htm

A History of the 20th Century Movement in America of “Jewish Believers” in “Yeshua Ha Mashiach” (Jesus Christ) by William Greene, Ph.D.

The modern phenomenon of Jewish believers in Jesus Christ as their Messiah has a long history in the United States, and (as is the case with most modern Jewish history) has strong ties to a European heritage as well. Foundations for the twentieth century were laid, of course, in the nineteenth century and before; worldwide, estimates of Jewish conversions to Christianity approximated 250,000 during the 1800s, including such notables as British Prime Minister Disraeli, Old Testament commentary wri ters Franz Delitzsch and David Baron, and the first Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, Michael Solomon Alexander.1 However, in America, this phenomenon has taken on some unique characteristics, the most prominent of which has been the evolution of what was known as "Hebrew Christianity" into today’s "Messianic Judaism." While some still try to maintain the existence of a present-day dichotomy between the two, for the most part, the latter has come to encompass the former.

This has not always been so. For many, the terms Messianic Jew and Hebrew Christian describe "different streams or ways of being a Jewish believer in Yeshua" (Hebrew for Jesus).2 Historian David Rausch emphatically believes that

at one end of the spectrum is Hebrew Christianity with a completely assimilated and church-acculturated Jewish convert to Christianity and on the other end of the spectrum is Messianic Judaism with the Jewish Christian maintaining traditional practice and either attending a Messianic congregation and/or a regular synagogue. To make this even more complex, there are Jewish believers in Jesus at various points along this spectrum who are using both terms ("H ebrew Christian" and "Messianic Jew") to describe themselves!3

For many within the movement, though (as discussed below), both terms are used, though Hebrew Christianity is often applied to the movement before the 1960s and 1970s. One anthropologist, Juliene Lipson, defined a Hebrew Christian as "a Jew who has accepted Christ as the Messiah and his savior, but who nonetheless chooses to retain his identity as a Jew." These Jewish believers are encouraged to join Christian churches in order to "avoid separating themselves from Gentile Christians," while at the same time, they are encouraged to join fellowships with other Hebrew Christians "to retain their ethnic identity and culture." 4 Others use the term as equivalent to Messianic Judaism, having "more in common with Orthodox Judaism than with the other two major forms [Conservative and Reform]. In fact [says this writer], ther e is more common ground between Hebrew Christianity and Orthodox Judaism than between the latter and Reform Judaism."5 The origins of this movement today can be said to have coincided with the period of the "national reawakening" of the Jewish people at the turn of the century.6

The early Hebrew Christians were mainly "fundamentalists" (the term comes from The Fundamentals , a series of books released from 1910-1915 in twelve volumes, detailing the absolute veracity of the Bible), who held a pro-Jewish and pro-Zionist position.7 In the late 1800s and early 1900s, there were several attempts at starting Hebrew Christian congregations, including in New York City in 1895, Toronto in 1917, Chicago in 1931, and Los Angeles in the 1930s.8 John Zacker, a Russian Jew, formed the Hebrew Christian Synagogue of Philadelphia, recognized as "the first distinct Jewish Christian house of worship in the United States;" it opened on February 25, 1922. 9

On May 22, 1901, the Boston Conference of the Messianic Council met, organized by Mark Levy, an English Jew, to push his idea to form an alliance in America of Jewish believers. This conference planned another conference to organize a Hebrew Christian Alliance of America (HCAA), which took place on July 28-30, 190310 (Louis Meyer, the corresponding secretary of this organizing conference, helped edit The Fundamentals ).11

Inaction followed this conference until 1913, when Maurice Ruben, a European-born Jewish businessman, held a meeting in Pittsburg with others (including Sabbati Rohold, an Orthodox Jew born in Palestine) to plan a conference, which established the HCAA in 1915. Rohold was elected its first President.12

The "driving motive" of the early HCAA was deemed to be evangelism, which was seen to fall "squarely on the shoulders of Hebrew Christians."13 In 1917, the HCAA began publishing the HCA Quarterly with a Yiddish supplement. It called its first full-time worker, Dr. Emmanuel Greenbaum;14 while the position of "worker-evangelist " had to be dropped in 1923,15 by 1932 missionaries were added once again.16 In 1923, the HCAA had established a "Chair of Jewish Studies" at the Moody Bible Institute, held by Solomon Birnbaum 17 (a position held today by Dr. Louis Goldberg). 18

From the beginning, the HCAA wished to be involved in the Zionist cause in Palestine. Though rejected by the Jewish Congress and the American Zionist Organization, they sent two workers to Palestine in 1920. In 1933, the International Hebrew Christian Association (IHCA) bought land to establish a colony near Gaza, but the contract was eventually broken, and they were not reimbursed until 1942.19 The IHCA had been formed in 1925 and headquartered in London. By 1935, it had affiliated alliances in approximately twenty countries (today, there are thirteen natonal Alliances affiliated with the IHCA). 20

In the 1920s, the HCAA took part in the fight against rising anti-Semitism, with records showing their strong denunciation of Henry Ford’s distribution of the forged Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion . 21 In the 1930s, the HCAA protested the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany, especially calling attention to the plight of the one and three-quarter million Christians of Jewish descent, who were "all treated as Jews while the Jews of Germany consider[ed] the m Christians." They therefore had trouble finding relief in either camp.22 The HCAA helped many of them to relocate, and continued to aid victims of the Holocaust after World War II (especially in Hungary, where a large mission was established).23

One outcome of the growing anti-Semitism, which even existed in churches in countries such as Germany, was a growing interest in establishing separate Hebrew Christian congragations, as a counteractive force.24 In 1934, the First Hebrew Christian Church was established under Presbyterians in Chicago. It had a Christian worship service with a Jewish "flavor," and was headed by David Bronstein (later, under the leadership of Daniel Juster in the 1970s, the name was changed to Adat Ha Tikveh and made more "messianic").25 This did not mean, however, that Hebrew Christians were moving in the direction of modern Messianic Judaism (the establishment of a totally separate identity for Jewish believers); in fact, back in 1917, the HCAA had taken a strong stand against such a m ovement, and had promised "that the Alliance stand on this issue would never change… ‘to be absolutely free from it, now and forever’ .’" 26 The HCAA was to remain a fellowship of Jewish believers, who nevertheless maintained their ties to Christian churches.

The HCAA continued to remain somewhat active in the next few decades after World War II. It ran "Haven of Grace," a home for elderly Jewish Christians, from 1953-1966.27 A zenith was reached with the "World Congress of Hebrew Christians," held in 1955 during the Jewish High Holy Days, and considered at the time to be "the largest gathering of Jewish believers in the history of the movement."28 Branches continued to be formed around the country (one formed in Miami in 1957);29 however, progress was slow (and often non-existent), to the extent that B.Z. Sobel in 1974 characterized the Hebrew Christian movement as possessing "an overwhelming bleakness, enervating ambivalence, and negativity."30

Things were beginning to change, though. The 1960s had arrived, and the younger generation was beginning to assert itself. Many wanted to explore more of their Jewish heritage and practices. Within the movement as a whole, as Rausch explains,

there had always been two attitudes toward Jewish practice. The mainstream of the movement believed that any return to Jewish practices would put one under the Law. This was interpreted as something Christians should never do — even Jewish ChristiansNevertheless, ( rightfully or wrongfully too) a smaller group within Hebrew Christianity asserted that the Jewish believer had a right to maintain his Jewish heritage and identity.31

In 1966, under the auspices of the HCAA, the Young Hebrew Christian Youth Organization (YHCYO) was begun; in 1967, it became the Young Hebrew Christian Alliance (YHCA). It held its first separate conference in 1970 at Messiah College in Pennsylvania (in 1975, the YHCA was renamed the Young Messianic Jewish Alliance of America [YMJA]), and began to surpass the parent organization in membership and enthusiasm.32 Many of today’s leaders of the Messianic Jewi sh movement have come from the YHCA, energized by the "Jesus movement" of the late 1960s and early 1970s.33 An obvious "generation gap" grew between the older "denominational" Hebrew Christians and these younger "Messianic Jews." The upcoming generation wanted to change the styles of worship and evangelism to a more Jewish context. It was also at this time that "Jews for Jesus" (discussed below) began.

Martin Chernoff became the President of the HCAA (1971-1975), and led the group towards Messianic Judaism34 (his sons, Joel and David, also served as Presidents – 1979-1983 and 1983-1987, respectively).35 In June of 1973, a motion was made to change the name of the HCAA to the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA); however, a two-thirds majority vote was necessary to effect the name change, and only 62% was received at this time. Two years later, though, there was enough support, and in June of 1975, the name was officially changed to the MJAA. 36 The (mostly young) supporters of Messianic Judaism had won out; the name change was significant as more than just a "semantical expression;" as Rausch states, "it represented an evolution in the thought processes and religious and philosophical outlook toward a more fervent expression of Jewish identity."37

It is this "fervent expression of Jewish identity" that truly sets the Messianic Jew apart. By definition, he or she is "a person who was born Jewish or converted to Judaism, who is a ‘genuine believer’ in Yeshua [Jesus], and who acknowledges his Jewishness."38 As Paul Liberman asserts: A tenet of Messianic Judaism asserts that when a Jew accepts a Jewish Messiah, born in a Jewish land, who was foretold by Jewish prophets in the Jewish Scriptures, such a Jew does not become a Gentile. In fact, he becomes a completed Jew — a Jew who believes Jesus is the Messiah.39

In this context, there is then no conflict whatsoever between being "Messianic" and being "Jewish," since "believing in Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah, is one of the most Jewish things a Jew can do."40 The belief is held that this is Judaism in the "true" sense. In the words of Messianic Jewish theologian David Stern, "I am religious. Not Orthodox, not Conservative, not Reform, not Reconstructionist but Messianic."41

A key aspect of Messianic Judaism’s deviance from the former Hebrew Christianity is its emphasis on using original Hebrew terms in place of traditional (Gentile) Christian terms. Examples include Abba (God the Father), HaBen (God the Son), Yeshua HaMash iach (Jesus Christ), Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit), B’rit Hadasha (New Testament), Mikveh (baptism), Joachim (John), Miriam (Mary), Sa’aul (Paul), and Shilush (Trinity).42

The term "Messianic Judaism," though some have traced it even to the nineteenth century, was propounded in the 1950s by Dr. Lawrence Duff-Forbes, but was not widely accepted at the time.43 The revival of the concept really began in the late 1960s, and came to fruition in the early 1970s. The early twentieth century works of its proponents within Hebrew Christianity (such as Zacker, Levy and others) had little impact on its present-day com eback and growth, as their works were not even rediscovered until the 1980s, well after the entrenchment of today’s Messianic movement.44

The leading organization of this movement is still the MJAA (the former HCAA), being the largest of its kind in the world, and representing the estimated 100,000 Messianic Jews in the United States. It is part of the larger international alliance formed in 1925, and encompassing thirteen countries.45 The MJAA is headquarted in Philadelphia (having moved there in 1980 from the old HCAA headquarters in Chicago,46 which had been located there since 1942). 47 For some years, the MJAA followed the practices of the HCAA and established local branches in various cities. However, these branches gradually began to go out of existence as a new phenomenon grew: Messianic congregations and synagogues. 48

In 1975, there were only seven of these distinctively Jewish congregations; 49 a decade ago, there were only fifteen. Today, there are at least ten times that number across the country.50 Martin Chernoff founded the first successful present-day Messianic Jewish congregation in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1970; 51 other examples include Congregation B’nai Maccabim in Chicago, led by John Fischer,52 the Messianic Jewish Congregation in Minneapolis (headed by Norman Nelson, a Gentile),53 Ahavat Zion Synagogue in Encino, California,54 and the most influential congregation in the MJAA from 1978 onward, Congregation Beth Yeshua in Philadelphia (also led by Martin Chernoff).55 Even Miami has at least three: Beth Yeshua, Beth Messiah in Miami Beach, and Bet Hesed in Kendall.

Over ninety percent of the Messianic congregations in the United States are "charismatic" in their theological orientation (believing in the gifts [charisms] of the Holy Spirit: tongues, healing, etc.),56 with one-third having been created by the charismatic Assemblies of God denomination.57 The meeting halls themselves often look similar to other synagogues, with the Israeli flag and the American flag at the front on either side, a Star of David, a menorah, and (in some cases) a Torah scroll behind a curtain. 58 Interestingly enough, these congregations are not "overtly evangelistic." They see their purpose as being for fellowship and worship "in a fashion more conducive to the Jewish heritage" than would be the case in a traditional Gentile Christian setting. 59

There are four umbrella organizations available for these congregations: the International Alliance of Messianic Congregations and Synagogues (IAMCS, a charismatic outgrowth of the MJAA), the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations (UMJC, an independent charismatic group formed while the MJAA was hesitant in forming the IAMCS), the (non-charismatic) Fellowship of Messianic Congregations, and a smaller grouping within the Assemblies of God denomination.60

The UMJC, currently based in Denver,61 was formed in June of 1979 by thirty-three congregational leaders from the U.S. and Canada. It was not designed to be a hierarchical control mechanism, but instead "as a loose confederation to aid in fellowship and education." Beginning with only nine c harter members, the number had risen to twenty-five by 1982.62 In 1986, the IAMCS was formed by the MJAA, and is much more structured than the UMJC, granting only associate membership until a minimum number of congregants is reached and other standards are adhered to. 63

Several Messianic yeshivas have been founded,64 including Betzel Shaddai in Chicago, started by John Fischer (who also founded B’rit Shalom in 1978, which functions as an educational service agency to Messianic congregations). 65 In addition, there is the MJAA’s Institute for Messianic Rabbinic Training (IMRT). Formed in 1989, the IMRT is designed to lead candidates to ordination, and offers Associate’s and Bachelor’s degrees in Messianic Rabbinics.66 Many of its courses are offered at the Annual Conferences of the MJAA, held at Messiah College in Grantham, Pennsylvania, which attracts approximately 2000 attendees.67 Over the years, conference participants have come to the Annual Conference from many countries, including Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Denmark, England, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Israel, Mexico, New Zealand, Russia, South Africa, Sweden, and most of the United States.68

If the Messianic congregations are not "overtly evangelistic," there is a Jewish Christian organization that is: Jews for Jesus (JFJ). Founded in California by Moishe Rosen, the name (which is often misapplied to Jewish Christians in general, much to the chagrin of many of them) originated with a San Francisco Hillel rabbi who used the term in a campus newspaper article to describe the "Jewish Jesus People" he saw . Liking the "ring" of it, "Moishe enthusiastically appropriated the phrase for his group as both name and slogan."69

His "group" had started as a mission of the North Carolina-based American Board of Missions to the Jews (ABMJ),70 who sent Rosen (an ordained Baptist minister) to California in the early 1970s. He was so successful that they brought him back to New York to train other Jewish evangelists, but eventually he returned to San Francisco, populating JFJ mostly with born-again hippies (Jewish and Gentile).71 In August 1973, the ABMJ terminated Rosen’s position as he became less denomination-oriented and more Jewish-oriented (messianic); the other eleven members of the mission also resigned from the Board in order to stay with JFJ. Their primary focus at this point had to be on raising financial support, since ABMJ funds had been cut off. This support came mostly from churches, so JFJ toned down their youth culture image, presented more and more of a Jewish image, and developed a "Hebrew Christian" ethnic identity.72 Today, JFJ is supported by churches, a number of Bible schools, and individual Christian donations (they take money only from those who agree with their beliefs; other donations are returned). In 1987, their annual budget was approximately $7 million, with ownership of $4.5 million in property and equipment.73 Today, their budget runs $10.2 million, with a full-time staff of 150 employees running branch offices in nine cities across the United States. There are also branch offices in Toronto, London, Paris, Buenos Aires, and Johannesburg. 74

JFJ’s tactics are headstrong (sometimes confrontational) and evangelistic in nature; they are most famous for their "campaigns," during which they go out on the streets of major cities such as New York and distribute millions of "broadsides" (folded-over humorous tracts presenting the gospel in a Jewish manner). They also work in airports; in 1987, they won a unanimous Supreme Court decision protecting their First Amendment rights to distribute literature in government-run airports (the case was argued for JFJ by Jay Sekulow, who now heads the American Center for Law and Justice [ACLJ] in Virginia Beach, Virginia).75

Jewish Christians, whether labeled Hebrew Christians or Messianic Jews, have encountered much opposition over the years, from both Jews and Christians. Most Hebrew Christians themselves were at first opposed to their following Jewish customs and laws.76 Reaction to the growth of Messianic Judaism has been strong from some Jewish missionary groups, as well. The Chicago-based American Messianic Fellowship (AMF), established by the Christian Zionist W.E. Blackstone in 1887, called the movement "utterly unscriptural," stating its belief that "while still a Jew by birth, in spiritual condition the believing Jew is now a Christian and totally removed from the religion of Judaism."77 In 1975, the Fellowship of Christian Testimonies to the Jews (FCTJ) officially opposed Messianic Judaism as a "fourth branch of Judaism, and as distinct from mainline Christianity."78 Across the spectrum of Christianity, some evangelicals opposed the "Jewishness" of Messianic Judaism, while some mainline Protestants opposed the tactics of "Jews for Jesus"-style evangelism.79

Of course, Jews have opposed the movement as well. At the beginning of this century, the majority of Jews did not accept Jewish believers as being sincere; a common belief was that anyone who became a believer "must either be deranged or have converted for material gain."80 When the HCAA asked to become involved in the Zionist cause in Palestine, they were rejected by the Jewish Congress and the American Zionist Organization. 81 The American Jewish Committee has for years attempted to alert Jews to the "dangers" of Messianic Judaism; 82 and the Union of American Hebrew Congregations (UAHC) has established a Committee on Cults and Missionaries, which provides educational materials "for use by member congregations in the battle against the deceptive techniques of … various Hebrew-Christian groups."83 Other groups, such as Jews for Judaism and the Jewish Defense League (JDL), have (sometimes violently) opposed and protested against Messianic Judaism and Messianic congregations.84

Is the Messianic Jew an "absurd Jew?" As Rausch puts it, "The Christian has told the Messianic Jew that ‘Judaizing’ is a very grave sin. Jews have told the Messianic Jew that the idolatry of ‘Jesus’ is a very grave sin."85 The movement would seem to be stuck between the two. However, their strength, as shown previously, has grown exponentially. Where they were dismissed a few years ago, they are today taken seriously (whether in a positive light or not). In fact, in a large number of cases, by the 1980s, many of the organizations which had been "anti-Messianic" were now mostly supporting "the concept of Messianic congregations and distinctly Jewish forms of worship and religious practice."86 And many in the movement now reject outright the attempt to divide Hebrew Christians and Messianic Jews as distinct and separate categories.87 In an article on the movement in Reform Judaism , Sheri Gordon writes:

There are more than 450 groups that hope to convert Jews in the United States, Israel, and Canada. Of those, approximately 150 are Hebrew Christian organizations, such as Jews for Jesus, that practice a hybrid of Judaism and Christianity. In 1978, approximately 10,000 Jews belonged to a Hebrew Christian group; today the ranks have multiplied to 160,000 members … Missionizing to Jews also extends to television shows such as "Zola Levitt" in Dallas and the "Jewish Voice Broadcast" in Phoenix and radio programs such as "Messianic Vision" in New Jersey. 88

If present trends continue, the Messianic movement in the United States will likely achieve more success in the coming years. However, while its acceptance may grow among Gentile Christians, there is little likelihood that the same acceptance will be granted by the American Jewish community. Thus, Messianic Jews will probably remain on the outside of this community, looking in. “……

 

Having a religion will not help you if God himself is against you.

Jer 52:1 ZEDEKIAH WAS twenty-one years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Hamutal daughter of Jeremiah [not the prophet] of Libnah.  Jer 52:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord, according to all that Jehoiakim had done. Jer 52:10 And the king of Babylon slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes; he slew also all the princes of Judah at Riblah. Jer 52:11 Then he put out the eyes of Zedekiah; and the king of Babylon bound him with shackles and carried him to Babylon and put him in prison [mill] till the day of his death. Jer 52:12 Now in the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, there came to Jerusalem Nebuzaradan captain of the guard, who stood {and} served before the king of Babylon.  Jer 52:13 And he burned the house of the Lord and the king’s house and all the houses of Jerusalem; every great house he consumed with fire.

Lam 1:5 Her adversaries have become the head; her enemies prosper. For the Lord has afflicted her for the multitude of her transgressions; her young children have gone into captivity before the enemy.

Now the city of Jeruslamen sadly has twice been destroyed by Pagans and by fire in History..

It should be understood by all that all Jews still need to be saved from their sins, Hell itself by accepting Jesus Christ as their Personal lord, Savior, and any of their Jewish cultural roots will not save them.

(Mat 23:37 KJV)  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

(Mat 23:38 KJV)  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

(Mat 23:39 KJV)  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/israel/


The sole basis of the Christian faith today, which is why it is also called the New Testament as well, is not at all the Old Testament Judaism but the New Testament Jesus. The true Christians since Jesus Christ next always left their old Jewish Synagogues all together… and all Christian Jews, Messianic Jews too need to do this today as well, also they are supposed to give up their Jewish roots, Jewish culture, Jewish religion when they accept Jesus Christ as their master, lord and savior . Some clerics, theologians, and scholars have worked hard to recover the supposedly historical Jewish Jesus. why? Ironically this rather was aided also by the Jews, Judiazers, even the false christians themselves who falsely wanted it seems to promote their own self importance, the false value of the now rather false, obsolete old Judaic religion, and it’s also still the false observation of the Old testament letter of the law over the New Testament spirit of the law approach. It is an ungodly act still too.

(Acts 20:29 KJV) For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. (1 Tim 4:1 KJV) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Old Israel being God’s people for they still will go to hell LIKE MANY PROFESSING CHRISTIANS WILL if they personally reject Christ and do not continue to follow after him. (Mat 7:21 KJV) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Rom 2:9 KJV) Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

as you should know if you know the Bible firstly that they the Jews were God’s people in the they were chosen to bring God’s Message and Messenger Jesus Christ to the world and not cause they had deserved to be chosen as such?

The New Israel is the Church.. which is now MADE UP  with the old Israel.. It may surprise you to discover that the New Testament never uses the term ‘chosen’ to describe the Jewish people. It is only used of those who follow Jesus. http://www.cc-vw.org/articles/zcs2.pdf

NOW WE VALID CHRISTIANS DO BASE THE VALID DOCTRINES ON THE NEW TESTAMENT SUBSTANTIATION BY JESUS OR THE APOSTLES, NOT JUST ON THE  OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES..

BY THE WAY THERE ALSO IS NO NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCE, THAT SUBSTANTIATED THE 3RD JEWISH RETURN TO THE HOLY LAND, THE PROMISE LAND. https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/what-the-bible-says-about-israel-and-the-church  http://mccainvrsobama.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/israels-past-promised-land/
AS TO  I am not quite sure about what you mean regarding “justification of any of Israel’s past or present acts.” INCLUDES THEIR MURDER OF INNOCENT CITIZENS, CHRISTIANS TOO OFTEN NOW TOO.. http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/what-the-canadian-conservatives-do-not-say-about-israel/ 
 
so what does the word chosen mean in the Bible and Chosen for what? For a job? a purpose? for sufferring? to bear fruit? as a wittness?

READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF AND FIND OUT THE MEANING OF THE WORD CHOSEN..

http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/what-does-the-word-chosen-mean-in-the-bible/

(Gal 3:28 KJV) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Discern It

 
Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
 

Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.

 

“Is the Holy Spirit the focus of your church? Georgian Banov’s Blasphemous Prophecy at Todd Bentley’s “Ordination.”
 
” In Todd Bentley’s initiation “ordination” ceremony last week one George Banov spoke providing Bentley a ‘prophetic word.’  I must say that initially, at least, he was a welcome relief following the demonic, frenetic, wild head shakin’ thang of Stacey Campbell.  Banov comes in at  6:00 minutes:A quick internet search could not produce much info on Banov; but, he’s obviously of the same heretical Latter Rain ‘stream’ as the others on stage. The reason I wish to call attention to this is the fact that in his ‘word’ Banov uses two Messianic prophetic scriptures and claims God told him these were for Bentley!  Here’s the transcription:  “Todd on behalf of the Eastern European nations and former Communist Countries, we want to tell you that we acknowledge and honor what’s upon you.  And, we give you the keys for Eastern Europe — especially the poor, the rejected, the gypsies. “And The Lord says that because you’ve loved his personal presence there are two anointings that are released on His presence and I just want to release those two anointings on you from the LORD.  By the way, the Lord says ‘you are well pleasing son.’ The Father, Abba, says that to you personally.  The first anointing is the anointing of the pleasure of the LORD.  [emphasis mine] “’Surely He has borne our grief, sickness and weakness and carried our sorrow and the pain and the punishment of us all. He was considered stricken, smitten and afflicted by God; but, He was bruised for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities and chastisement that brought our peace came upon him and by His stripes we were healed and made whole.’  [Isaiah 53:4-6]  And, yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him and in His presence there is fullness of joy and pleasure for evermore. [This is apparently a paraphrase of more than one scripture with another.] And, God’s releasing his pleasure of what He did to Jesus upon you Todd. “And, the second anointing that he wants to release upon you is in Psalm 45 but it’s also in Hebrews chapter one verse nine.  It says, ‘Because you have loved righteousness and you have delighted in integrity and virtue and uprightness in heart and thought and action and you have hated injustice and iniquity; therefore God, your God has anointed you with the oil of exultant joy and gladness above and beyond your companions.’  We bless you.” Not only does he quote two Messianic scriptures and applies these to Bentley, he even goes so far as to claim that the Lord referred to Todd as a ‘well pleasing son’ thus putting Bentley on par with Jesus! [Matthew 3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22]  Does this not show this group to be promoting Manifest Sons of God doctrine – part of the heresy of the Latter Rain teachings?  And, no one batted an eyelash on stage or in the audience.   In fact, they clapped and cheered.   I wish to point out that there is only one true ( source of the ) anointing( as opposed to many ??)  – the anointing of the Holy Spirit upon true believers who accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.  24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.  26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit — just as it has taught you, remain in him.  [1 John 2:20-27 NIV] To promote that we can attain Christlikeness this side of glory is tantamount to denying Jesus Christ’s exclusive Divinity as the One and only Son of God.  As the Apostle John points out above, this is the spirit of antichrist. submitted by Lee  “
 
Nice to note the reference to the poor too but I undeniably, for sure have received many different anointings in my life for various specific services from the Holy spirit by the laying on of hands now too,
 
“Lee, “in your opinion, Bentley’s fails”? Do you not value others opinions? Do you believe you can be wrong on this? This is what I meant when I referred to a wrong interpretation of scripture.”
 
“How do you handle it when other Christians disagree with you?  Lee “
 
“And, remember, always share humbly that you may be wrong. Your interpretation of the matter may be wrong. You respect their position, even if it’s contrary to your human interpretation of a non-absolute of scripture. Don’t butcher them publicly and them him hurt and attacked. Rather, pray for them, speak well of them, love them and lift them up. Beyond that, it’s not your battle to fight. “
 
And thenonconformer next said.. It is very clear that the much too many false Critics of the Pentecostals will try to grasp at any straws to falsely bash the Pentecostal and still try to justify their immoral acts..

Any Christian being plagued with critics, opponents, unsubstantiated personal attacks too now, is really nothing new even to the past apostles, prophets , Jesus Christ himself who have face many similar bullies, groups etc., the devil is too ready an accuser of the Brethren, and tries to continually discredit any work of God even since the time of Jesus Christ himself now too even using inapplicable and distorted Biblical reasons and Bible verses now too
I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings any of of the latter rain churches..
   
A MAJORITY OF THE CRITICS OF THE LATTER DAY REVIVALS, are too clearly their often diverting back wrongfully the topic discussions, making often personal insulting, unacceptable derogatory remarks is even THEIR typical unChristlike bulling Reponses, self righteous, a superiority attitude, and what else? is not the right approach from anyone and it does continue to reflect poorly on ALL OF THEM STILL too…
 
THE WAY THEY THEMSELVES DO UNDENIABLY POINT FINGERS AT THEIR SELF DEFINED OPPONENTS, IN A JUDGMENTAL MANNER, UNLOVING, UNKIND, UNJUSTIFIABLE MANNER IS CLEARLY THE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE NOW TOO.
 
And very revealing what they are firstly like themselves
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/understanding-me-and-others-better/
 
 “To the non conformer- Got any examples there or are you just ranting? For the record, I believe in Charismatic gifts and vehemently oppose these latter rain revivals. You’ve simply dismissed any opposition to this heresy as unloving and unkind by using blanket statements like: “I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly…” “and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings any of of the latter rain churches…”  “…making often personal insulting, unacceptable derogatory remarks is even THEIR typical unChristlike bulling Reponses, self righteous, a superiority attitude…””
 
In reply now thenonconformer said  I have read in the last month every wordpress site, and many others sites openly bashing, abusing, slandering the Florida revival, Todd, the latter day Pentecostals and yet to date I personally have not read, seen one valid criticism, decent presentation at all.. what a great shocker.. It all seems more like little immature, jealous kids still fighting over which one of them will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and who will be last.. what a real absurdity. Don’t get desperate but get real… like I have rightfully said I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings of any of the latter rain churches..  I did not say Charismatic supposedly churches.. cause we know those often mean rather the Catholic Pentecostals.. as to what the Bible says is only how you here do interpret it.. not the Holy Spirit.  I have been a Christian for 50 years and a Pentecostal pastor for the last 30 years, and I have attended the latter day churches too and often.. and specifically what about you? not the supposed others..  The Latter Rain movement was rejected by the AoG Pentecostals in 1948 as heretical… and they are speaking for God now.. dream on.. There are other pentacostal denominations who support them, approve of them, me included. The full Gospel Business Men’s fellowship uses a similar approach for decades now too. many persons bashing other Pentecostals with clearly a hidden agenda is still the wrong thing to do now too.. they are not doing it in love or humility Cleary as required by the Bible now too.  http://pbulow.tripod.com/ http://groups.msn.com/AFOLLOWEROFCHRIST https://postedat.wordpress.com/
 
You ask “are you ranting”… my how you like to bash, insult people.. you do not know to even try to judge them, quite immature and unspiritual too.. looking for a big fight cause someone had stepped on your sore toes.. I certainly hope you do not profess wrongfully to be a Christian to anyone, cause you do not act like it for sure… nor do I hope you abuse all the people like that who make a post here.. a sure way to next lose many people still too. Stay in God’s love and not rather in the flesh.. we may not agree, do have a right to differ, but we still do need to show love to the others. Need more input from me on the subjects.. I have it detailed even on 5 internet sites.. including https://postedat.wordpress.com http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/
 
You say  ” Todd Bentley is a savage wolf in sheep’s clothing and a false apostle, who is being led by a counterfeit “Jesus” and “spirit”” , Bud  “
 
Thenonconformer, “my how you like to bash, insult people..” “…looking for a big fight cause someone had stepped on your sore toes.. I certainly hope you do not profess wrongfully to be a Christian to anyone…” Tell me what is even scriptural right about this one sided, bullying, bashing, lying, a argumentative, ungodly, unchristlike posts clearly not done in love too.. hope you still do not profess to be a Christian, cause you give a really bad image to the real Christians.
 
>>What am I missing out on by not falling into line with the latter rain heresy? Salvation? “The next wave?” Becoming a “manifest Son of God” (i.e. Jesus)? Why should I conform as you have (contrary to your name) to this heretical doctrine?  
and you lie and distort often what I have said still too.. I never asked you to fall in line, I had asked you to act like real Christians, and show real love, not mostly hatred rather..   Like i have said When you talk about what the scriptures says you honestly should also point out that you mean it is how you now interpret what the scripture says.. cause too many of us read different things out of the same scriptures as we all do know firstly.. The people who also tell us to use only the Bible often still lie further to us.. they ask us also to use men’s commentaries, instead of the Holy spirit to next interpret the Bible. (Eph 4:18 KJV) Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

I tend to look at both sides of the issues myself.. for that matter I have now been both non Christian, and Christian, both Baptist and Pentecostal, and both groups still do have major errors, weakness, inadequacies, and they now also have some good points too.. but still there is no such thing as a perfect denomination now as well
But one other thing often is clearly is evident to me visiting, reading the many so called Professing Christians sites mostly all telling us the supposed truth, postings often more with dishonest hidden agendas, poorly researched too, very biased now too.. It also seems to me they are also still are trying to convince themselves as to what is the truth is and no one else, they build up their own false straw arguments, and then do reply to their own arguments. It is generally too often now not an honest presentation, discussion of the topic they have presented.
 
Why is it so many people (control freaks)  try too limit the power of God, and they work so hard to try to tell us what God can and cannot do today.. for sure, definitely it is not only cause they are spiritually immature, have a hidden agenda, are promoting themselves, or they are unoriginal parrots who repeat what others have said , but it is often still mainly because Satan for sure is behind all this too.
    
Is 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no one else; there is no God besides Me. I will gird {and} arm you, though you have not known Me,(Jer 32:27 KJV) Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

 

Aside from that fact many do not know, read , they do not understand the scriptures, the Bible in reality but merely mouth what they think or what others have said instead..
 
Latter rain is a term referring to the new outpouring of the Holy Spirit on today’s Pentecostals. The events of Pentecost are known as the former rain.
The idea of latter rain comes from this Old Testament text, which precedes Joel’s prophecy that God will pour out his Spirit on all people:
Be glad, O people of Zion,
rejoice in the LORD your God,
for he has given you
the autumn rains in righteousness.
He sends you abundant showers,
both autumn and spring rains, as before.
Joel 2:23
The early Pentecostals connect their own experience of the Spirit with that of the disciples, and Peter’s quoting of Joel’s prophecy in Acts 2: 16-21 is a further prophecy that God would pour out his Spirit again at a later time.
They tend to state that the pouring out of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost as the early autumn rain, and the second pouring out of the Spirit, that they were experiencing, as the later spring rains; the Latter Rain.
The idea of latter rain is found throughout many denominations of Pentecostalism, but specifically the Latter Rain Movement, founded in 1948, teaches that the second coming of Jesus is due to happen soon and that latter rain is evidence for this.
 
I have read in the last month every wordpress site, and many others sites openly bashing, abusing, slandering the Florida revival, Todd, the latter day Pentecostals and yet to date I personally have not read, seen one valid criticism, decent presentation at all.. what a great shocker.. It all seems more like little immature, jealous kids still fighting over which one of them will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and who will be last.. what a real absurdity.
 
Don’t get desperate but get real… like I have rightfully said I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings of any of the latter rain churches..
 
I did not say Charismatic supposedly churches.. cause we know those often mean rather the Catholic Pentecostals..
 
as to what the Bible says it is only how you here do interpret it.. not the Holy Spirit.
 
Need more input from me on the subjects.. I have it detailed even on 5 internet sites.. including https://postedat.wordpress.com http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/
 
Some people would say I too have never seen alcohol do one good thing for anyone rather mostly a lot of evil.. . and do look at things associated with alcohol…bars, strip clubs, drunks, DUI’s, addiction and the like. Tell me who your friends are and I can always tell what you are like too. These are not activities a true Christian should participate in. Therefore, it is better to SHUN even an appearance of evil. And yes Christians are commanded that our bodies are not to be mastered by anything…our bodies are the temple of God. We are always to be in self control. not rather selfish oriented. Also, the wine Jesus and the apostle used, wine was likely not fermented in biblical times as it is today, it was rather grape juice, and was unlikely to cause drunkenness as easily. Falsely for too many professing Christians Smoking, Homosexuality is okay, drinking alcohol is okay, using profanity is okay, tax evasion is OK, Cheating, lying, stealing is OK.. Get a real life. Get Jesus It does sounds like many always rejected the truth of the Bible, Jesus and have finally found a denomination that supports their sin. The Gospel according to them. Lucky them? Not at all. They also tend to show the mental sloppiness, dishonesty common to the liberals, bashers of Pentecostals and fundamentalists, not those elf real Christians for sure.
 
A preacher had recently written to me and said to me that we all should get more of the Word into us, meaning the Bible, but what we all do need is more of the Holy Spirit, starting with His fruit of love, for I also now could not help but notice how unkind, proud, arrogant this preacher still was himself.. too many preachers now know the Word but they seem too easily forget to also live it themselves firstly, and I rightfully would rather see a sermon practiced, then merely hear it lip service preached too. Much too easier to preach it to others, harder to live it oneself..
 
(Neh 8:10 KJV) Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the LORD is your strength
 
” I see there is some objection to calling Latter Rain a heresy, as well as Banov’s comments to Bentley. In particular, here is one comment I’d like to address: “It is very clear that the much too many false Critics of the pentecostals will try to grasp at any straws to falsely bash the pentecostal and still try to justify their immoral acts..”

I would like to point out that it was the Assembly of God, a pentecostal denomination, who believes in the practice of all the spiritual gifts, who officially declared that Latter Rain was heretical.”
 
“I doubt your comment above about the AoG declaring Latter Rain a heresy will have much affect. Someone else further up the thread already pointed that out and basically that fact was laughed at as inconsequential.”
 
“Is it not possible that Todd loves righteousness and has delighted in integrity? “
 
“The problem with these comments comes down to arrogance, in all humility when you guys bash “Fuller” that tells me you are coming at this from with far more “pride” than you are compassion. If a brother is in error go to them, have you written Todd Bentley a certified letter? Do you have compassion?”
 
“Lee unfortunately all your responses are based on “your” interpretation of Scripture. Your foundation is not Scripture, but yourself and how you interpret it.
There is no truth to the accusations you are making against Todd Bentley. I pray that your eyes would be opened to all you are missing in the Holy Spirit.

 Am I saying everything Todd Bentley does or has ever done is correct? No, I have not seen everything, what I have seen has been done with integrity, with the power of God, with humility and with a focus on Jesus Christ and Him being worshipped. Also unless you have any experience with healing, miracles, prophecy, resurrections, encounters with God, etc you have no right to make a judgement. You have no experience with which to even judge or speak to others about. Until you are doing the works of Jesus your interpretation of Scripture is worth little. Your Kingdom of God is based your talk, the one in the Bible is based on power. I pray your eyes would be opened to the more that God has for you!”

thenonconformer said.. If you don’t answer questions, whatever. It is cause what I have posted is very clear and undeniable too already and because I am not foolish to play your fighting game, get a real life and act like a real christian.. and here is what I have posted about the OAG
 

The Assemblies of God Pentecostal supporters, members are noted for their opposition to the Florida Lakeland revival, and to the Latter day movement.. and I rightfully as I do dislike their too often abusive unchristian like posts too.. but why the opposition? Jealous? How wordly, ungoldy? It supposedly competes with their own revival?
“I have just returned from Buffalo and am now home in Pensacola. What awesome services on Sunday! Pastor Tommy Reid said to his congregation, “There are moments when God moves in a church and today is one of them!” I am always humbled when the Lord moves. From the first service at 8 am to the last service at 11:30 God moved in all three. The first service, which is mainly seniors, had a wonderful sense of God’s power! As I prayed for the saints of the church, each one fell under the power of God! How humbling! When the second service crowd started to move into the sanctuary they saw their beloved seniors prostrate out on the floor! That’s enough to build anyone’s faith. I had the privilege of praying for probably another two to three hundred people. The second service rolled right into the third service which is primarily a multi cultural service. God was faithful and moved again touching lives at the altar! http://www.brownsville-revival.org/
 
and like many other Pentecostals, Alliance, Baptist, Evangelical Churches they falsely do not include helping poor people in their own churches as an essential Christian doctrine now too? why?
 
(Rom 15:26 KJV) For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. (2 Cor 9:9 KJV) (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. (Gal 2:10 KJV) Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. (James 2:5 KJV) Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?  (James 2:6 KJV) But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
 
“I just quickly read your most recent post; and, I’m not sure why you insist on bringing in things totally unrelated to the post. You have no idea if anyone who posts here does or does not give to the poor in our own churches. I don’t even wish to field a response to it. Please refrain from these excursions in the future or your entire post will be deleted.”
 
 thenonconformer replied  Actually I said their church doctrines do not include  giving to the poor and why was that ? you yourself had referred to the poor people in your starting address..
 
thenonconformer replied  I HAVE RIGHTFULLY BECOME SUSPICIOUS OF WHAT I HEAR, READ, AND TEST IT RIGHTFULLY TOO.. and I do even look for their too often, false hidden agendas as well.. Now some persons not help but notice that bashing of the mostly white man’s Latter Day Pentecostal revival, denomination by the Mostly Black AOG Pentecostal movement? is this what it is really all about now here too? But also I have never said that the Latter Day Pentecostal revival leaders were saints, in fact I have often said the opposite and for specific valid reasons. But I see no valid Proof still that Todd Bentley is totally wrong..
 
I was in a super great Church once, ( a latter day denomination- The Calgary Christian Centre) even though the Pastors were stealing, abusing the funds, committing adultery, counseling divorce, gossiping, slandering, lying, and so forth. The Holy Spirit due to the prayers of some of the faithful persons there was really moving in their services, and many people were getting saved, healed and delivered, and the praise and worship services were really great. God specifically had told me to go to this church as well, but he had put a condition on it, he said do not talk with, communicate, fellowship with any of the pastors. I had done some great personal counseling in that Church as well.. met some great and also bad people.
 
But eventually one day next came when I had to talk to the same pastors, and even to tell them that God was going to get rid of them, to next deal with them negatively and God did! God next broke down this large Calgary church because it had grown big in size and had become perverse. All of the pastors were next removed from it as well.

Micah 3:6 KJV) Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. 7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. 8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.  

I had good reasons supposedly for not Pastoring once, one of which was there now supposedly were plenty of other good Pastors, much better Pastors than me around.. and both arguments were lies as God himself next showed me firsthand when I interviewed about 45 evangelical pastors.. even about their marital counselling practises… which is almost none! This is also really surprising when about 70 percent of all people even in the churches tend to have major marital problems sooner or later.. Pretender, liar and that is so typical of evangelical pastors in Canada, elders, and pastors of the false Christian Missionary Alliance church now too. I wrote about this false church before too. No wonder most of the evangelical pastors as well do commit adultery, or steal, commit tax evasions, gossip, slander, abuse others and falsely counsel divorce now too. In reality 70 percent of all of the the pastors are still really bad, still doing a real bad job.. for firstly they tend not to use the Bible at all in their own personal counseling practices but rather they tend to do use an immoral, humanistic, psychological approach, or they simple say get divorced and wrongfully too. Their actual daily usage of the Bible, not books really can show you how good or bad pastors they still are, and never mind what useless Bible college or commentary also that they graduated from still.

 
Many persons go to church expecting personally to be helped by the pastor and they do next walk away disappointed. Their first normal mistake was having any personal expectations of any help from the Pastors, even though this may be an honest expectation, for our help is in the Lord and all our expectations should come only of Him.
 
Try to go to church expecting only to see Jesus Christ, to get any desired help from Jesus only, and not any man, or women, and expect nothing else, have no expectation of any good from the pastors, elders and you certainly will next not be disappointed.
Because of my poor health I have had to retire from a physicaly active Ministry and next many people could not understand how I could be by myself alone, for such long periods of time, and for me it is very easy for I have Jesus to go directly to talk with, I do prefer his company above all others rightfully too. Learn to talk to Him directly about your concerns, not firstly the Pastors!!
 
(Luke 9:36 KJV) And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen. (John 8:9 KJV) And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst
 
Secondly the majority of these pastors they do not provide at all any real counselling help to their own flock in need even in their own churches, and especially not related to marital, employment problems also even in Evangelical, Pentecostal churches. This approach of their is not really pastoring.. this is stealing money from the sheep! Sadly most pastors seem to want to only to preach, to talk big and to be praised for it, to be recognized, and admired by the others, for they tend to have a false, big ego that they want filled, but they still wrongfully not want to do also the real work, the dirty work at the sheep’s level.. Yes these same pastoral hypocrites also do falsely tend to lie, slander others , gossip and also to delegate blame on one of the spouses even in a martial problem situation, even with invalid still reasons, basically for them not to personally get involved. The pastor would say something like the husband or the wife was at fault.. so the pastor is still talking only about the negative symptoms of a real marital problem, and what is he real or false solution rather.. pass the buck wrongfully still to the others? Unacceptable and I would rightfully not give any of my money at all to this type of Pastor or his Church!
 
Pastoral marriage counselling it is also still mandatory for all Pastors, all of them too, it is mandatory still that they do also help each and every sheep in their flock, and do home visits as well.. and these two also are not optional.. but sadly majority of Pastors they really still do not have love for the sheep.. and doing the dirtier jobs they wrongfully run away for it.. and God himself told me that this was all was immorally acts on the part of both of these pastors.. I never run away from any hard counselling.. for I got God to help me.. Do thus tell the pastor that up to 70 percent of the people have marriage problems, it is always the biggest pastoral need too.. and if he does not do this work than he is really not a real pastor.. just another hireling, or a wolf in sheep clothing.. You do clearly also have my permission to send these remarks to them as well! I have already personally fired about 25 pastors in my life time.. and I do not hesitate to publicly expose them, rebuke them rightfully remove them from office still.. any of the bad ones..
 
(Prov 27:5 KJV) Open rebuke is better than secret love. (Luke 17:3 KJV) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. (Phil 2:15 KJV) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; (1 Tim 5:20 KJV) Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. (2 Tim 4:2 KJV) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. (Titus 1:13 KJV) This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; (Titus 2:15 KJV) These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. (Rev 3:19 KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Better to be rebuked by me than God next directly, for God then will not be so forgiving.. (Psa 18:39 KJV) For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me 40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me. 41 They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not. 42 Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets. (Psa 18:44 KJV) As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me. 45 The strangers shall fade away, and be afraid out of their close places. (Psa 18:46 KJV) The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted. 47 It is God that avengeth me, and subdueth the people under me. 48 He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man. (Psa 18:49 KJV) Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name. 50 Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and showeth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.
 
The trouble with anyone lying is that soon one will likely end up believing in one’s own lies and one tends to live out the lies next, to act upon their false delusions.This applies to people who lie to the courts, to politicians who lie to the citizens as well.. to Pastors who lie to their congregations.. Now I have personally seen this happen many times .. For example a pastor was personally asked to repent of his own immorality. His own family asked him if the charges were true. The pastor replied you cannot believe anything the persons says he is crazy.. Soon the pastor’s family started to worry about this supposedly crazy person. To keep up the pretense the pastor even bought next a bullet proof car for protection for himself. This increased the stress upon his own family.. They lived out the pastor’s lie.. This was a punishment for the lies now as well. This same truth applies to ANYONE, Minister, lawyers, spouses who lie to us or the courts too. In the end the pastor still lost his church anyway, because he next was still exposed for his wrong doings, cause you cannot lie to everyone.. some people saw the truth.. and did something good about it too.. they let the Pastor go.
 
(James 4:17 KJV) Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. 

thenonconformer  also said My same posts are posted on many sites too.. deleting them will do nothing.. but show to all how free speech is falsely denied by false excuses again

http://groups.msn.com/AFOLLOWEROFCHRIST But I mostly still do what the Lord tells me, not what others say I should do..
 
 

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Top read posts in the last quarter in descending order
 

 

 
Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
 
Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.

 

 

Issues

 

Our concern should not be just as to how the world sees us but we must be more serioulsy cocnerend as to how God realy sees us..  (Heb 10:31 KJV)  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/christians-are-supposedly-to-be-different/

When anyone talks about what the scriptures says they  honestly should also point out that they mean it is how they  now interpret what the scripture says.. cause too many of us read different things out of the same scriptures as we all do know firstly..
 
The people who also tell us to use only the Bible often still lie further to us.. they ask us also to use men’s commentaries, instead of the Holy spirit to next interpret the Bible.
 
(Eph 4:18 KJV)  Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

 Aside from that fact many do not know, read , they do not understand the scriptures, the Bible in reality but merely mouth what they think or what others have said instead..

If you read all my popular posts, writings, sites  I deal also with the subject of bad Christians, bad Pastors too, bad Pentecostal, bad evangelicals too, really bad churches too… I even deal with the Toronto Airport Fellowship church, and the Christian Missionary Alliance Church 

http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/  

https://postedat.wordpress.com/

 http://groups.msn.com/AFOLLOWEROFCHRIST

 http://groups.msn.com/HolySpiritCome  

http://pbulow.tripod.com/

 For the record ,the  Reality! These days it is too hard to tell the difference between secular persons and even evangelical pastors, Christians even on the net, for they seem to do the same things too. They even seem to lie, bully, bash, twist the truth, oppress, slander, distort in their posting replies, and behave clearly unloving, unchristlike.. falsely justify their sinning now too.  Most anti Florida revival sites, posters are abusive abusers even if they lie and say they now are Christains too.

 
There has been a great deal of garbage posted all over the internet about the supposed lying signs and wonders going on in the Florida Outpouring in Lakeland, Florida. Todd Bentley has been blasted by numerous bloggers for channeling demonic power and that is how these seemingly miraculous things are happening. According to these bloggers, satan has all kinds of power, especially in false miracles and healing. Does he? Does the Bible say that he does?  Actually, the Bible does not. Healing is an activity that the Lord has reserved for Himself. If there are counterfeits, there must be also a genuine existing.. spirit led Christians can tell the difference by the Holy Spirit. as per yoo often distorted, false  unsubstantiated assumptions, it is so obvious that many still  are desperately grasping at straws intheir personal bashing of this revival, for what winning at all costs is so important to then that they forget decency, honesty, respect? Do always firstly practice, try the Holy Bible instead. There has been a great deal unacceptable garbage opposing this Florida revival on the net, and for me it shows more truth about the spiritual nature of the critics, posters too… unflattering to the critic , and unchristian critics..

 One would even think the professing Christians sites are a place for a gathering of snakes, jokers, not real professing, decent, honest living Christians by the type of posts many write now on various topics even. If you profess to be a Christian time you acted like it still too..  I too would rightfully see a sermon from even them all than hypocritically only hear it preached again from these critics.. it is time they firstly had applied the Bible for all to see. Sow, show your love to others anywhere, even here.. mandatory.  I still cannot help but notice that a certain segment of every society, bad self-righteous  persons, in churches too, on th enet too, bad persons who to compensate for their poor self image, poor self worth, or even an over inflated ego, self worth they in a sinful pride too they do  try to put others under their sinful bondage, even to still wrongfully deny their human rights and their equal rights of free speech,  to equally express themselves, to be equally heard too.  I have always wondered besides Satan himself as to the original source of this perverse, degenerated  human domination attitude, unacceptable abuse, approach. This enslavement attempt occurs too often now too now even not just in the  despotic churches, despotic governments, despotic police, in the civil and public services, but it is carried out even by so  so called professionals in corporations, schools, universities too where these control freaks, bullies, slave drivers  do want to dominate falsely their wills and desires upon others. But I know clearly that the solution to this approach is public exposure of the abusers in a very loud voice so everyone can hear about it too. For God himself still does not accept these abuses for sure. 
  
(Rom 8:15 KJV)  For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

I was trying to understand what was so objectionable, bad at the Florida revival that had some persons clearly foaming at the mouth and I looked at many of the critics rather poor posts and yet I could not understand what was so wrong, or basically agree with any of them.. their often emotionally charged bashes, criticisms, posts  are varied, non standard,  some are generally against any kind of healing, some are against any kind of manifestations of the Holy Spirit, some are against the people who attend the services, some are denominational differences, disputes etc 
 
Now me thenonconformer  had next said” THE WAY YOU TRY TO MAKE FUN AT OTHER CHRISTIANS IS SICKENING, POOR THEOLOGY AND IS SADLY TYPICAL OF FUNDAMENTAL BASHING OF PENTECOSTALS.
 

Evangelical Fundamentalism tends to replace the worship of God , the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ with the sole worship of the Bible, bypassing the works of the Holy Spirit it seems, though most Fundamentalists will deny that. Liberalism, too, replaces the worship of God, and of the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ with the worship of something else. In the case of Liberalism, however, the worship of God was replaced by the worship of mere human reason , and both groups are not that far apart, for they are are in error.

Fundamentalists tend to worship every word and letter in the Bible. Actually, they worship their own private interpretation of scripture (compare 2 Peter 1:20). This is the same error that the Pharisees fell into. They ended up worshiping Torah more than God, and, even more than Torah, they worshiped their own interpretations (and the interpretations of the elders) of Torah. (They still do so today, only now they have codified those traditions into the Talmud.) Likewise, so do Fundamentalists worship their own interpretation of Scripture. In both cases, “they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever.” (Romans 1:25).

 Fundamentalists and Liberals too need to learn the truth of 2 Corinthians 3:6, “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” They need to seek God in SPIRIT and in Truth. Liberals need to learn the truth of John 4:23 (quoted above) and of John 6:63, “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.” They need to seek God in Spirit and in TRUTH. http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/12941.htm

TOO MANY Evangelical fundamental parrots often need to quote someone else cause they do not know the Holy spIrit well enough to let him lead them, even the truth about healing. I SPEAK FOR MYSELF.   http://pbulow.tripod.com http://pbulow.tripod.com/healing.html  
 
Latter rain is a term referring to the subsequent outpouring of the Holy Spirit on many of today’s Pentecostals. The Acts New testament events of Pentecost are known as the former rain. The idea of latter rain comes from this Old Testament text, which precedes Joel’s prophecy that God will pour out his Spirit on all people:

Be glad, O people of Zion,
rejoice in the LORD your God,
for he has given you
the autumn rains in righteousness.
He sends you abundant showers,
both autumn and spring rains, as before.
Joel 2:23
The early Pentecostals connect their own experience of the Spirit with that of the disciples, and Peter’s quoting of Joel’s prophecy in Acts 2: 16-21 is a further prophecy that God would pour out his Spirit again at a later time.
 
They tend to state that  the pouring out of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost as the early autumn rain, and the second pouring out of the Spirit, that they were experiencing, as the later spring rains; the Latter Rain.
 
The idea of latter rain is found throughout many denominations of Pentecostalism, but specifically the Latter Rain Movement, founded in 1948, teaches that the second coming of Jesus is due to happen soon and that latter rain is evidence for this
 
I tend to look at both sides of the issues myself.. for that matter I have now been both non Christian, and Christian, both  Baptist  and Pentecostal, and both groups still do have major errors, weakness, inadequacies, and they now also have some  good points  too.. but still there is no such thing as a perfect denomination now as well
 
But one other thing often is clearly is evident to me visiting, reading the many so called Professing Christians sites mostly all telling us the supposed truth, postings often more with dishonest hidden agendas, poorly researched too, and very biased now too.. It also seems to me they are also still  are trying to convince themselves  as to what is the truth is and no one else, they build up their own false straw arguments, and then do  reply to their  own arguments. It is generally too often now not an honest presentation, discussion of the topic they have presented.
 
thus when I see there the often shallow arguments  of anyone still limiting today as to what God can do, even through us,  it makes me rightfully also think how shallow their Christian faith now really is.. they are still babies in the Lord and need someone to teach them the whole truth, the whole , full gospel too, for my God can do anything, Jesus is the same , yesterday, today and forever.
 
 
According to your faith it shall be for you as well, and you might like the foolish virgins be left behind.. ’
 

Tell me what is even scriptural right about the one sided, bullying, bashing, lying, argumentative, ungodly, unchristlike posts clearly not done in love too.. hope you still do not profess to be a Christian, cause you give a really bad image to the real Christians.

>>What am I missing out on by not falling into line with the latter rain heresy? Salvation? “The next wave?” Becoming a “manifest Son of God” (i.e. Jesus)? Why should I conform as you have (contrary to your name) to this heretical doctrine? you lie and distort often what I have said still too.. I never asked you to fall in line, I had asked you to act like real Christians, and show real love, not mostly hatred rather..  ”

 “I never knew you, is not a criticism by Jesus that the healings, miracles done by the person(s) were false.. but a true statement that they really never knew Jesus fully or personally, it seems to apply to you now firstly too. You are so sensitive to others being supposedly false, cause you clearly are false, now take the beam out of your own eye first.. Someone is wrong here and I don’t think it is that difficult (except perhaps for you) to determine who that is and that is you.. for you do twist Bible verses, slander, falsely quickly bash others to suit your own views.. Clearly Judas was an Apostle, better look at the definition of an Apostle, an Apostle is not an unchristian person.. and he was next replaced in the book of acts by another Apostle. The fact that Jesus knew that Judas would betray him does not mean he was not anointed.. but first better look at the meaning of the word anointed now.. one who evidences the Holy spirit.. with signs and wonders Acts 10:38 If you do not let the Holy spirit lead you as to what a verse actually means you are part of the Blind leading the blind now, forget trying to say the scripture cannot be wrong, rather you are wrong.. “You throw the term free will around as if it does not need to be defined. ” and yet you clearly in desperation rebuttal quoted back a verse that has nothing to do with one’s free will.

>>“You have contradicted now three times the Word of Jesus,” and what a further false and wrong, judgmental act on your part too, you so easily condemn a person whom you do not know, never met, another real Christian, a real christian now over 50 years too, and I have been pastoring now for over 3 decades as a Pentecostal pastor too. get a real life. Really do get Jesus.”

Why is it so many people try too limit the power of God, and they work so hard to try to tell us what God can and cannot do today.. for sure,  definitely it is not only cause they are spiritually immature, have a hidden agenda, are promoting themselves,  or they are unoriginal parrots who repeat what others have said , but it is often still mainly because Satan for sure is behind all this too.

Is 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no one else; there is no God besides Me. I will gird {and} arm you, though you have not known Me,
  
(Jer 32:27 KJV)  Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

“I have read in the last month every wordpress site, and many others sites openly bashing, abusing, slandering the Florida revival, Todd, the latter day Pentecostals and yet to date I personally have not read, seen one valid criticism, decent presentation at all.. what a great shocker.. It all seems more like little immature, jealous kids still fighting over which one of them will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and who will be last.. what a real absurdity. many persons bashing other Pentecostals with clearly a hidden agenda is still the wrong thing to do now too.. they are not doing it in love or humility Cleary as required by the Bible now too. ”

“are you ranting”… my how you like to bash, insult people.. you do not know to even try to judge them, quite immature and unspiritual too.. looking for a big fight cause someone had stepped on your sore toes.. I certainly hope you do not profess wrongfully to be a Christian to anyone, cause you do not act like it for sure… nor do I hope you abuse all the people like that who make a post here.. a sure way to next lose many people still too. Stay in God’s love and not rather in the flesh.. we may not agree, do have a right to differ, but we still do need to show love to the others.

Don’t get desperate but get real… like I have rightfully said I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings of any of the latter rain churches..  I did not say Charismatic supposedly churches.. cause we know those often mean rather the Catholic Pentecostals..

as to what the Bible says is only how you here do interpret it.. not the Holy Spirit.  I have been a Christian for 50 years and a Pentecostal pastor for the last 30 years, and I have attended the latter day churches too and often.. and specifically what about you? not the supposed others..

>> “The Latter Rain movement was rejected by the AoG Pentecostals in 1948 as heretical”… and they are speaking for God now.. dream on.. There are other Pentecostal denominations who support them, approve of them, me included. The full Gospel Business Men’s fellowship uses a similar approach for decades now too.

Need more input from me on the subjects.. I have it detailed even on 5 internet sites..
including
https://postedat.wordpress.com
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/

A preacher had recently written to me and said to me that we all should get more of the Word into us, meaning the Bible, but what we all do   need is more of the Holy Spirit, starting with His fruit of love, for I also now could not help but notice how unkind, proud, arrogant this preacher still was himself.. too many preachers now  know the Word but they seem too easily forget to also live it themselves firstly, and I rightfully would rather see a sermon practiced, then merely hear it lip service preached too. Much too easier to preach it to others, harder to live it onself..

“Spurgeon was once asked when he would quit smoking cigars. He replied, “When it becomes a problem.” He was then asked, “When will it become a problem?” To which he replied, “When I smoke two at a time.” wow, look at all the false justifications for Spurgeon’s sin.. I often consider their spiritual maturity. I doubt that smoking cigars, as Charles Spurgeon did, had the negative stigma that it does today. Is there any room for putting “drinking Coca-Cola” on your list? :)” ….  PS: Hey I must admit, I don’t know a lot about Spurgeon, although I understand he Is a type of hero for most evangelicals …I do think he was a godly man, aside form this apparent bad habit.  Thenonconformer says and I still think there is no such thing as a little bit pregnant.. especially for a preacher.

Some people would say I too have never seen alcohol do one good thing for anyone rather mostly a lot of evil.. . and do look at things associated with alcohol…bars, strip clubs, drunks, DUI’s, addiction and the like. Tell me who your friends are and I can always tell what you are like too. These are not activities a true Christian should participate in. Therefore, it is better to SHUN even an appearance of evil. And yes Christians are commanded that our bodies are not to be mastered by anything…our bodies are the temple of God. We are always to be in self control.  not rather selfish oriented. Also, the wine Jesus and the apostle used, wine was likely not fermented in biblical times as it is today, it was rather grape juice,  and was unlikely to cause drunkenness as easily. Falsely for too many  professing Christians Smoking, Homosexuality is okay, drinking alcohol is okay, using profanity is okay, tax evasion is OK, Cheating, lying, stealing is OK.. Get a real life. Get Jesus  It does sounds like many  always rejected the truth  of the Bible, Jesus and have finally found a denomination that supports their sin. The Gospel according to them. Lucky them? Not at all. They also tend to show the  mental sloppiness, dishonesty  common to the liberals,  bashers of Pentecostals and fundamentalists, not those   real Christians for sure.

(Neh 8:10 KJV)  “Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the LORD is your strength.” Not the wine, smoking, drugs, alcohol..

 
 “All the great outpourings of the past have had their outstanding truths.
 
Luther’s truth was Justification by Faith. Wesley’s was Sanctification. The Baptists taught the premillenial [sic] coming of Christ. The Missionary Alliance taught Divine Healing. The Pentecostal outpouring has restored the Baptism of the Holy Ghost to its rightful place. The next great outpouring is going to be marked by all these other truths plus such a demonstration of the nine gifts of the Spirit as the world, not even the Apostolic world, has ever witnessed before. This revival will be short and will be the last before the Rapture of the Church.”
  
And yet in many of these same groups the followers, and leaders still next became corrupt.. the same groups are too often fake today rather. The Christian Missionary Alliance now included.
 
EVEN IF A GROUP HOLDS TO SOME VALID TRUTHS SUCH AS
– Jesus Christ is the sole Savior, Lord of your life.
– The concept of the restoration of the Tabernacle of David. Praise & Worship emphasized as a means to usher (1) in God’s presence and (2) to usher God’s people into His presence. Singing in the spirit congregationally, I.e. in other tongues. The “song of the Lord” a prophetic song or one in other tongues but interpreted
– The belief that God has now restored all the ministry gifts back to the Church, especially the office of the prophet and apostle {this is where today’s prophetic/apostolic move comes from}.
– The practice of laying on of hands to be filled with the Holy Spirit (and the evidence of speaking in other tongues).
– The practice of laying on of hands to impart spiritual gifts
– The belief Christians can be demonized and need to be delivered through the laying on of hands.
– Divine healing is obtained by faith and also is imparted via the laying on of hands
– Emphasis on spiritual warfare
– Emphasis on personal and directive prophecy
– Anointed Women have a full and equal ministry role in the Church, I.e. women pastors, prophetesses, elders, etc.
– The Rapture, the second coming of Christ is inevitable, soon
– Emphasis on Missions, evangelism, the Bible, a Pastor..
 
 The same group can still be false, led by false men and not by the Holy Spirit.(John 10:1 KJV)  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.2  But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3  To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4  And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5  And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
 
(Mat 10:17 KJV)  But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18  And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19  But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20  For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21  And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23  But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
 
(Mat 7:15 KJV)  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
 
 (Rom 10:3 KJV)  For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.  
 
and the  too often whole emotion-driven judgmental critical opposition sadly being seen to any revival, any Pentecostal movement in any churches and that is falsely sweeping through the net is firstly more indicative of the personal agendas of the emotional posters, and them now clearly being led by Satan as well.. These Christians who themselves do denounce Pentecostals for being “emotional” tend as we all can see easily to be very , very emotional themselves about all this too.. How contradictory, and hypocritical the Emotions are wrong for Pentecostals but not for their opponents. I have often rightfully said it again and again the posts of the critics tend to be more indicative of how bad the critics themselves now are, their false pride, lack of humility, their ignorance of God, His workings, and the Bible too, their own lack of love and even much more. Have you also not noticed how rarely both Catholics, and evangelicals, do refer specifically to the Bible, rather they like to speak their own views, opinions of other men.. interesting! 
 
 (2 Tim 2:25 KJV) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
  
AND WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY TO INSULT, ABUSE, LIE ABOUT THE OTHER CHRISTIANS?