the posts the Lakeland Revival bashers seem to despise

Florida Healing Outpouring with Todd Bentley: 30 Reasons for Healing (16-30)

27 06 2008

First, Roy Fields is back!  Others leading has been moving, but there is something about him that changes the atmosphere.  Roy, welcome back.  Second if you are in Lakeland Fl on the 4th of July there will be free food. From 4-7pm, next Friday there be a celebration with free food.  This will also lead into a water Baptism service.  I am just thrilled for both of these events.  The first shows a desire to reach out to  host community and give back to those who have given so much.  As important, the second is another example of how Fresh Fire and Ignited are taking care and shepherding those who are making profession of faith under their leadership.

Another fun fact, there is now a medical doctor who is reviewing all the medical reports about healing.  The desire for accountability and integrity is great in Lakeland.   One of the assistants said there is a four step process for those who take the stage professing healing
1 Pastor volunteers from around the world, screen and test, those who claim to have received healing
2 This is then relayed to those who bring the person on stage, to ensure what is shared is consistent
3 After they are on the platform, a survey is filled out with symptoms, sign of healing and contacts.
4 FOLLOW UP!  1-2 weeks a phone call is made to see how they are doing.

Just some random quotes form Todd Bentley… he really does use the name of Jesus.
(This is just a sample, to show who the glory goes to)

“We are encouraging people to see doctors after healings.  I believe in medicine”
“It is the power of Jesus.  We are powerless without the power of the Holy Ghost
“Can we give thanks to Jesus for this.”
“We want to give all we can, leally, to the media to give the glory to Jesus.”
“We give all the glory to Jesus”
“Can we give Jesus all the glory tonight?”
while praying for healing, “Two new ankles in Jesus mighty name”

30 Reasons for Healings #16-30 (all verses NIV)

16. He does what he pleases – God is sovereign and healing happens because God chooses too.
17. Charitable Giving- (whole chapters but verses) Acts 9: 36 In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas), who was always doing good and helping the poor  and Acts10:2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.  Based on these verses miracles happens as a direct result of charitable giving.  It would seem that when we take care of the pour, God reaches and extra measure of the miracles.
18. The Gospel – Mark 16:19-20 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.    Healing is good news and,  according to Todd, the Gospel is the power of God as well as the message of salvation
19.  I am a friend of God’s – John 15:15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.  God hears the prayers of His friends.  What do you do for your “true” friends?  The deeper the intimacy with God, the deeper the friendship. Is God your friend, because there seems to be many who understand Jehovah but do not understand Abba.  Abba, is the characteristic of a deep personal relationship.
20. The Glory of God –  John 11:4 When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.”
21. The cures of the Law – Romans 8:2  because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Healings show that you free from the law of sin and death.
22. Desperation: Mark 5:27 When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak,  Sometime people need a touch so bad they push trough to get it.  “if only this small amount”  They are the ones who are desperate enough to reach out and get healed

23.  Connection locked up

24. Name of God – Exodus 15:26 He said, “If you listen carefully to the voice of the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you.”

25. Communion – 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.  This would seem to be a reason why you are not, but if it bring sickness maybe it bring healing (my thought on it, time was short so the last were real quick)

26.  Gift of the Spirit- There was no verse give to justify this, but 1 Corinthians12:9-109to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

27. The name of Jesus – Triune God, Jesus is God see #24

28.   The nature of the Holy Spirit – God creates when the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit moves.  It was after Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. That God said, “Let there be light.”  IF the Spirit lives with us, then he is moving, we should expect creation (new body parts is creation).
29. I am Saved – James 5:15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.  Faith is a gift of the Spirit and only saved people have this.  So salvation, brings faith, faith brings healing.  And, yes because Jesus forgave my sins.
30. Kingdom of God- Mathew 6:10 Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.  There is no sickness in the Kingdom, God preformes creation in His kingdom, there are miricals in the Kingdom, let it be so here

These are the second half of the 30 reasons, each with scripture refrances.  People you may not like Todd Bentley, but please be careful arguing against the word of God.  For those around Todd, let him know I said “thanks for the teaching, it has meant a lot to me.”

On a personal note:  I blew out my knee today, while walking down some stairs.  It hurt to move or even put pressure on it.  Tonight, during the broadcast, I WAS HEALED.  Proof of this, I wrote this whole blog standing up.

http://allenwilson.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/florida-healing-outpouring-with-todd-bentley-30-reasons-for-healing-16-30/

  the Lakeland critics   seem to be led by the devil..

Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
 
Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.
  
Do see also
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TOO OFTEN FALSE BASH OF PENTACOSTALS HEALERS

Our actions must be founded on what we know to be true from God’s Word, and that what is being directed us personally to each one of us by the Holy Spirit, and to do that we all still do need to continually in reality live a Holy Sprit filled life. it starts by daily reading the Bible, having a Bible devotional, and sadly even most pastors do not do that too.

Mark 16:17 And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;
Mark 16:18 They will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well.
Mark 16:19 So then the Lord Jesus, after He had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and He sat down at the right hand of God.
Mark 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord kept working with them and confirming the message by the attesting signs {and} miracles that closely accompanied [it]. Amen (so be it).

In contrast I read on the net what the bullies, bashers say about healings, miracles.
http://hiscrivener.wordpress.com/2008/06/28/faith-healers-could-encounter-a-setback-at-the-altar/
http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/george-banovs-blasphemous-prophecy-at-todd-bentleys-ordination/
It should be clear to most of us, the bad guys do not like my pages still.. it shows them in their true light.. the bad guys, bullies, bashers or what ever?

THE WAY MANY FUNDAMENTAL EVANGELICAL AND SUPPOSEDLY PROFESSING CHRISTIAN CRITICS TRY TO MAKE FUN AT OTHER CHRISTIANS IS SICKENING, A VERY POOR THEOLOGY AND IS SADLY NOW ALSO TYPICAL OF THE MUCH TOO OFTEN FALSE BASHING OF THE PENTECOSTALS TOO! It clearly makes me think that Satan himself is behind most of it still too.

And what about the Phony wars and phony peace by the professing Christians now too..
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/why-is-toronto-airport-christian-fellowship-angry-still/

As to bullies question to me.. ““are you ranting”… my how you still do like to bash, insult people.. you do not know them even well enough to falsely even try to judge them, your approach is quite immature and unspiritual too.. looking for a big fight cause someone had stepped on your sore toes.. http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/more-about-control-freaks/

I certainly hope you do not profess wrongfully to be a Christian to anyone, cause you do not act like it for sure… nor do I hope you abuse all the people like that who make a post here.. a sure way to next lose many people still too. Stay in God’s love and not rather in the flesh.. we may not agree, do have a right to differ, but we still do need to show love to the others. Need more input from me on the subject.. I have it detailed even on 5 internet sites.. ”

It is very clear that the much too many false Critics of the Pentecostals will try to grasp at any straws to falsely bash the Pentecostal and still try to justify their own immoral acts..

Any Christian being plagued with critics, opponents, unsubstantiated personal attacks too now, is really nothing new even to the past apostles, prophets , Jesus Christ himself who have face many similar bullies, groups etc., the devil is too ready an accuser of the Brethren, and tries to continually discredit any work of God even since the time of Jesus Christ himself now too even using inapplicable and distorted Biblical reasons and Bible verses now too.
I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings any of of the latter rain churches..

A MAJORITY OF THE CRITICS OF THE LATTER DAY REVIVALS, are too clearly their now too often diverting back wrongfully the topic discussions, and themselves making often personal insulting, unacceptable derogatory remarks and even their evidently their typical unChristlike bullying Reponses, self righteous, a superiority attitude, and what else? is not the right approach from anyone and it does continue to reflect poorly on ALL OF THEM STILL too…
THE WAY THEY THEMSELVES DO UNDENIABLY POINT FINGERS AT THEIR SELF DEFINED OPPONENTS, IN A JUDGMENTAL MANNER, UNLOVING, UNKIND, UNJUSTIFIABLE MANNER IS CLEARLY THE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE NOW TOO. And very revealing what they are firstly like themselves
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/understanding-me-and-others-better/

“I have read in the last month every wordpress site, and many others sites openly bashing, abusing, slandering the Florida revival, Todd, the latter day Pentecostals and yet to date I personally have not read, seen one valid criticism, decent presentation at all.. what a great shocker.. It all seems more like little immature, jealous kids still fighting over which one of them will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and who will be last.. what a real absurdity. I myself though have opposed Todd Bentley’s associated with some really bad pastors, trying to make money form selling items at the revival.. and his false application for divorce..

Hey Critics, Don’t get desperate but get real… like I have rightfully said I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings of any of the latter rain churches..

I did not say Charismatic supposedly churches.. cause we know those often mean rather the Catholic Pentecostals..

as to what the Bible says is only how you here do interpret it.. not the Holy Spirit.

I have been a Christian for 50 years and a Pentecostal pastor for the last 30 years, and I have attended the latter day churches too and often.. and specifically what about you? not the supposed others..

The Latter Rain movement was rejected by the AOG Pentecostals in 1948 as heretical… and what they are speaking for God now.. dream on.. There are other Pentecostal persons, denominations who support them, approve of them, me included. The AOG has it’s own falsehoods, and problems it needs to look at.. (Mat 7:3 KJV) And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

The Full Gospel Business Men’s fellowship uses a similar latter rain approach for decades now too.
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/laying-of-hands-impartation-breathe-of-the-spirit-anointings-anointed/

Too many persons are bashing other Pentecostals with clearly a hidden agenda, jealousy, and it is still the wrong thing to do so now too.. they are not even doing it in love or humility Cleary as required by the Bible now too. ”

Even because Evangelical Fundamentalism, dispensationalists, too often also replaces the worship of God , the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ with the sole worship of the Bible, bypassing the works of the Holy Spirit it seems, though most Fundamentalists will deny that. Liberalism, too, replaces the worship of God, and of the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ with the worship of something else. In the case of Liberalism, however, the worship of God was replaced by the worship of mere human reason , and both groups are not that far apart, for they are are in error.

Fundamentalists worship every word and letter in the Bible. Actually, they worship their own private re-interpretation of scripture (compare 2 Peter 1:20). This is the same error that the Pharisees fell into. They ended up worshiping Torah more than God, and, even more than Torah, they worshiped their own interpretations (and the interpretations of the elders) of Torah. (They still do so today, only now they have codified those traditions into the Talmud.) Likewise, so do Fundamentalists worship their own interpretation of Scripture. In both cases, “they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever.” (Romans 1:25).

Fundamentalists and Liberals too need to learn the truth of 2 Corinthians 3:6, “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” They need to seek God in SPIRIT and in Truth. Liberals need to learn the truth of John 4:23 (quoted above) and of John 6:63, “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.” They need to seek God in Spirit and in TRUTH.

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/12941.htm
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/hard-to-tell-the-difference/

Reality! These days it is too hard to tell the difference between secular persons and even evangelical pastors, elders, deacons too for they all seem to do the same bad things too.. adultery, alcoholism, gossip, slander, divorce..

And when I see shallow arguments of anyone still limiting today as to what God today can do, even through us, EVEN ABOUT HEALING, it makes me rightfully also think how shallow their Christian faith now really is.. they are still babies in the Lord and need someone to teach them the whole truth, the whole , full gospel too, for my God can do anything, Jesus is the same , yesterday, today and forever.

ON TOP OF THAT I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW SO MANY OF THESE SAME PERSONS PERSONS ALSO FALSELY RISE TO DEFEND SMOKING, WINE, ALCOHOL AS WELL AND WORK FULLY TO DENY IT IS SINFUL.. “Spurgeon was once asked when he would quit smoking cigars. He replied, “When it becomes a problem.” He was then asked, “When will it become a problem?” To which he replied, “When I smoke two at a time.” AND look at all the false justifications for Spurgeon’s sin.. and do see also alcoholism the unacceptable sin

When you talk about what the scriptures says you honestly should also point out that you mean it is how you now interpret what the scripture says.. cause too many of us read different things out of the same scriptures as we all do know firstly..

The people who also tell us to use only the Bible often still lie further to us.. they ask us also to use men’s commentaries, instead of the Holy spirit to next interpret the Bible.

(Eph 4:18 KJV) Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

I tend to look at both sides of the issues myself.. for that matter I have now been both non Christian, and Christian, both Baptist and Pentecostal, and both groups still do have major errors, weakness, inadequacies, and they now also have some good points too.. but still there is no such thing as a perfect denomination now as well

But one other thing often is clearly is evident to me visiting, reading the many so called Professing Christians sites mostly all telling us the supposed truth, postings often more with dishonest hidden agendas, poorly researched too, very biased now too.. It also seems to me they are also still are trying to convince themselves as to what is the truth is and no one else, they build up their own false straw arguments, and then do reply to their own arguments. It is generally too often now not an honest presentation, discussion of the topic they have presented. http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/todd-bentley-gets-annointed-by-special-oil-from-africa/
>>Pastors are going there by the droves. I know one personally. He went to Toronto to bring some of “it” back and he’s done the same thing with Lakeland. I think he thinks this will be the answer to filling the seats in his church, “http://Christian theology.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/depart-from-me-i-never-knew-you/

>Did he really tell you that or are you in truth distorting, lying, falsely judging him and many others cause you are a controlling person ?
I see nothing wrong in going there and I am real Christian now too

The nonconformer replied “I never knew you, is not a criticism by Jesus that the healings, miracles done by the person(s) were false.. but a true statement that they really never knew Jesus fully or personally, it seems to apply to you now firstly too. For no pastor, evangelist, healer IS PERFECT TO START OFF..

You are so sensitive to others being supposedly false, cause you clearly are false, now take the beam out of your own eye first.. Someone is wrong here and I don’t think it is that difficult (except perhaps for you) to determine who that is and that is you.. for you do twist Bible verses, slander, falsely quickly bash others to suit your own views..

Clearly Judas was an Apostle, better look at the definition of an Apostle, an Apostle is not an unchristian person.. and he was next replaced in the book of acts by another Apostle. The fact that Jesus knew that Judas would betray him does not mean he was not anointed.. but first better look at the meaning of the word anointed now.. one who evidences the Holy spirit.. with signs and wonders Acts 10:38

If you do not let the Holy spirit lead you as to what a verse actually means you are part of the Blind leading the blind now, forget trying to say the scripture cannot be wrong, rather you are wrong.. “You throw the term free will around as if it does not need to be defined. ” and yet you clearly in desperation rebuttal quoted back a verse that has nothing to do with one’s free will.

“You have contradicted now three times the Word of Jesus,” and what a further false and wrong, judgmental act on your part too, you so easily condemn a person whom you do not know, never met, another real Christian, a real Christian now over 50 years too, and I have been pastoring now for over 3 decades as a Pentecostal pastor too. So get a real life. Really do get Jesus.”

Why is it so many people try too limit the power of God, and they work so hard to try to tell us what God can and cannot do today.. for sure, definitely it is not only cause they are spiritually immature, have a hidden agenda, are promoting themselves, or they are unoriginal parrots who repeat what others have said , but it is often still mainly because Satan for sure is behind all this too.
https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/discern-it/
Evangelical fundamental parrots often need to quote someone else cause they do not know the Holy spirit well enough to let him lead them, even the truth about healing. I SPEAK FOR MYSELF. http://pbulow.tripod.com/healing.html
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/64/

Is 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no one else; there is no God besides Me. I will gird {and} arm you, though you have not known Me,

(Jer 32:27 KJV) Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks, persons, civil and public servants, politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,

Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.

I undeniably could not help but notice on even the web too how supposedly British religious clergies, scholars, Christians, falsely also do bash American Pentecostal revivals? It is not being done out of jealousy too?

http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/it-is-not-good-for-the-man-to-dwell-alone/

I have been on the net for over 2 decades, and I have thousands of readers regularly reading my posts. Hey I too have often said that there are many professing bashers, bullies, liars now even on the Christian internet and they think they alone can make the rules, enforce the rules on others, and that is too bad for them too for they need to grow up.. and to firstly get used to the right of free speech of others, other’s right to be heard and to male their own posts .. I only have about 30 internet sites written often for these bad hypocritical Christians now too so hopefully they too will learn the truth about themselves.. too bad guys do not like me to use my right of free speech.. so what else is new.. they by their bullying, control freak approach clearly show to all what hypocritical Christians they rather are! They are not humble servants of Jesus for sure.

isn’t it great that we all can have the same right to make a post now and the same right to have it read by others now too?

http://witnessed.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/fundamental-evangelical-and-supposedly-professing-christian-critics/

Jews and their own need of Salvation by Jesus Christ still too

All Israel Shall Be Saved?

by Steve Wohlberg

Romans 11:26 says, “And so all Israel will be saved.” What does this mean?

Obviously, it doesn’t mean every Jew will be saved. In fact, the same chapter says God hopes to “save some of them” (vs. 14). Judas was a Jew, yet we know he will be lost for betraying Christ. Jesus called him, “the son of perdition” (John 17:12). Jesus told many Jews, “If you do not believe I am He [the Messiah], you will die in your sins” (John 8:24). Not every Jew believes in Jesus Christ, thus many will “die in their sins” and be lost.

Many Christians today interpret Romans 11:26 as applying to the end of the seven-year tribulation when Jesus appears in the clouds at His Second Coming. In other words, they don’t apply the verse to all Jews throughout history, but only to “all Jews” who are alive at the end. Supposedly, at the end of the tribulation, all remaining Jews in Israel will look up, see Christ coming in the clouds, realize He is the true Messiah, believe in Him, and thus “All Israel will be saved.”

This is a false teaching, as I will attempt to show.

  1. First, the context of Romans 11 is not the Second Coming.
  2. “There is no partiality with God” (Romans 2:5-11). It would be an act of partiality to save “all Jews” at the end, but not “all Jews” in history. The idea is, “When all final Jews see Christ coming in the clouds, then they will believe.” But this would give those final Jews a supposedly irresistible opportunity to believe in Jesus Christ which past Jews have not had. Nor would this be fair to “all Gentiles” living at the end. Why would God save all Jews at the end but not all Gentiles? All Gentiles will see Jesus coming just like all Jews.
  3. When Christ finally appears in the clouds, IT’S TOO LATE TO BELIEVE IN HIM. Rev. 22:11,12 says that before He comes in the clouds, all decisions have already been made. Jesus said it will be like Noah’s day (Mat. 24:37-39). In Noah’s day the door of the ark closed before the flood came (Gen. 7:16). When the flood came, it was too late. To save all Jews AT THE SECOND COMING would be like saving all those outside the ark WHEN THE RAIN STARTED FALLING.
  4. When Jesus comes in the clouds, this is the time of judgment upon ALL unbelievers who don’t know God nor obey the gospel (2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14,15).

So what does this mean, “All Israel shall be saved”? First of all, Romans 9:6 says there are two Israels. one is an Israel according to the flesh (Romans 9:3,4) and the other is the Israel of God (Galatians 6:14-16). The Israel of God is composed of both Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:29). Gentiles who believe are grafted in. They become part of the “same body” with believing Jews (Eph. 3:6). Paul calls this unity of believing Jews and Gentiles, “the mystery of Christ” (Eph. 3:4).

The immediate context of Romans 11:26 is vs. 25. When “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” then “all Israel will be saved.” Or, to be exact, “And so all Israel will be saved.” In other words, the coming in of the fullness or total number of the Gentiles results in “all Israel” being saved. Paul’s idea seems to be that when all Gentiles (totally, throughout history) have come in, that is, have been grafted into the Vine, they, uniting with all Jews who have become believers, will form the total number of the saved. Paul also reveals that when Gentiles come in, God can use this to motivate some Jews to believe (verses 11 & 14). Vs. 25 calls this whole thing, “this mystery,” which we have already proven to be the “mystery” of both Jews and Gentiles being united in one body through Christ (Eph. 3:4,6). Vs. 27 says all are saved because Christ takes away their sins through His covenant, which must be the New Covenant, which applies to all believers, Jew and Gentile. Thus the “all Israel” that is saved is the total group of believing Gentiles and Jews combined.

The “all Israel that is saved” does not apply to all Jews throughout history, nor can it apply to a select favored group who become instant believers when Jesus Christ comes crashing down through the sky. By that time, it is too late to believe.

do see also https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/who-rules-your-rulers-god-himself/

http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/the-2-promised-returns/

Canadian Political Christians.. 1

  
Part 1: It should be clear, apparent to any one reading this post that it seems even very difficult to even try to believe that the New Conservative party of Canada , it’s leaders, it’s supporters, evangelical supporters now too,  are even really Christians.. persons who do really  care about the good welfare of others.. for the ministry of Jesus and the Apostle undeniably and clearly involved helping the poor and needy people.. not rather the established rich get richer.. Now  I do not have to agree with all that was written here, but under the right of free speech they too are allowed to be heard now too. 
 
There has been definite an attempt by some Canadians  to associate  the Albertan – New Conservatives Party of Canada as being right winged Christian Nazis, dictators, abusive persons, oppressors of the poor people, supported by the rich Jews now too, and there has been undeniable Hitler, Nazi support in the recent decades amongst even the German North American Baptist community in Alberta,  as I  have personally witnessed also.
 
But let me also  remind you in fairness too  that it was the immoral Nazi Hitler,  who falsely not only had committed murder of Jews and many others,  but he also was the first one to establish  a State  Social welfare and medical care system. 
 
A true Christian should also still be a balanced Christian, a right winger as well as a left winger.. they should respect law and order, but as well be considerate of, compassionate for   all of his neighbors, even the  poor and needy persons too.
 

“The Canadian National Newspaper: Stephen Harper government’s public policy motivations linked to far right affiliations by Paul Chen.  Author Trevor Harrison links Preston Manning to Northern Foundation ideological interests
 
 Trevor Harrison links Stephen Harper and his government, along with Conservative Party founders like Preston Manning (right) to bona fide fascist ideologues.

The Stephen Harper government’s systematized negligence on defending Canada’s social fabric proves one thing, beyond any reasonable doubt. Mr. Harper is apparently using Canadian governmental authority to advance the ultra right wing ideological goals that Trevor Harrison outlines in his book. Mr. Harrison documents in the book entitled Of Passionate Intensity, that Prime Minister Stephen Harper was a member of the ultra-right wing Northern Foundation in 1989. Mr. Harrison documents that this Foundation was comprised of Neo-Nazi social Darwinist intellectuals.

The original Nazis, under Adolf Hitler, believed in that Ayrans were destined to rule, and other groups, as inferior populations, were destined to serve the ruled. Neo-Nazis or “modern Nazis”, who are also inspired by “Eugenics”, further believe that these racially superior group of whites, are destined to once again rule the world, under the religious guidance of these “Aryans”, through the creation of a “New World Order” (NWO). “Globalization” is a project among these elites, toward the creation of the NWO.
As social Darwinists, Canada’s Neo-Nazi intellectuals believe that society and the world in general, would be strengthened when weaker “mongrel races” accept their “inferiority” and are allowed to perish, without the protection of social policy, like universal public healthcare, and human rights.

Neo-Nazis view war i.e. the “War on Terrorism”, as desirable, to create a “warrior society”, and to ensure that the resources of the world are under the direction and exclusive control of “Aryan descendants”. A “warrior society” glorifies militarism and military service to defend against “enemies of society”, which include human rights and social activists.
The Northern Foundation of which Mr. Harper was a member, is a male-dominated and self-anointed “white brotherhood”. Females are not excluded though, provided that they accept its highly conformist and male chauvinistic culture of fascism.

Mr. Harper would eventually “officially” break-away from this group. Indeed, it would be unfair to Mr. Harper, to continually link him ideologically to a group that he may have simply sought to explore, in his process of political exploration and outreach. However, upon closer examination, the substantive policy direction of the Conservative government, appears to be emphatically driven by the expressed agenda of the Northern Foundation. This includes massive cuts to programs aimed, for example, at advancing the status of women; and protecting minorities from institutionalized discrimination.

A national social housing group on 12 July 2008, gave the Stephen Harper government a failing grade when it comes to putting roofs over the heads of needy Canadians. Members of ‘ACORN’ say the Conservative government has stood by while housing in Canada has dipped below international standards, and they want action of the issue.
However, the apparent continued apparent support for Eugenic inspired Northern Foundation ideology, suggests that Canadians can expect further worsening of Canada’s quality-of-living under the Stephen Harper government.

Through Eugenics, ruling elites seek to “prune Canada”, and the human race in general, of what are considered by some to be “physically, mentally, socially and even economically ‘unfit’ persons. ” LINK

This is not a “conspiracy theory”. Representatives of ruling elite affiliated with the Northern Foundation, who support the depopulation agenda of Eugenics have openly spoken and written about their objectives. Eugenics is a social Darwinistic related “super-religion” which has operated with the religious circles of elites who subscribe to the principle that only the “fittest should survive”.

The “need” to divert expenditures away from vital social spending into “investments” in a bloating American-linked military-industrial complex, is in turn, the socially engineered result of the corresponding Eugenic-inspired Iraq War.

The unethically perpetrated Iraq War, has in turn been used to rationalize the leaching of billions dollars from defending Canada’s quality-if-life, is designed to intentionally create the conditions for socio-economic dislocation in Canada.

It is apparent that the Iraq War, was motivated by an apparent Eugenic desire by the U.S. George W. Bush administration, to destroy America’s “middle class” resistance to elite desire for “total control”. It is further apparent, that the far-right in Canada through the Harper government, seeks to import that agenda into Canada.
The Harrison documented Neo-Nazism, that is associated with the Northern Foundation, ideologically embraces sexual repression; homophobia; and seeks to prevent constructive measures to redress the plight of the poor, which include senior citizens and children.

The apparent goals of the Northern Foundation, through the Harper government, appear to be to replace Canada as we know it, (as a progressive society), into being a regressive society under the U.S. colonial control, under the direction of a self-anointed clique, that now pursues the clandestine “North American Union” (NAU) agenda. In other words, Mr. Harper appears to be attempting to use public office designed to defend the national interests of all Canadians, to carry out the apparent private agenda of a clique, whose members are determined to transform Canada into their own bleak fascist image under U.S. control.

The support of the Harper government for the undermining of civil rights through the rationalization of the so-called “War on Terrorism”; operates to execute the glorification of militarism and war; messianic Zionism; an apparent bias toward ‘eugenics’ in relation to ignoring the global threat of the HIV-AIDS pandemic, (and the corresponding environmental-related “life and death” issue of Global Warming); and use religion as a means to manipulate the masses. All of these are being conducted to support the desire for Canada to become a U.S. colony through the endorsement of the Security and Prosperity and Partnership of North America (SPPNA); and are all supported by the expressed ideology of the Northern Foundation. More on Stephen Harper and the Northern Foundation as documented by Trevor Harrison
Stephen Harper was Reform Party Policy chief, at a time when it had numerous members of the white supremacist group Heritage Front as members. Trevor Harrison, further documents that Mr. Harper even had Heritage Front members doing security for Preston Manning at Reform Party events in Ontario. The Reform Party would evolve into the Alliance Party of Canada, which sought to take over the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada (PC Party) toward the formation of the “Conservative Party of Canada”. The taking over of the PC Party was sought to provide legitimacy to a movement that was largely continued to be perceived a fringe group from Alberta. However, the current Conservative Party is still apparently governed by the same fringe Reform Party mentality, which in turn is linked with the architects of the far right Northern Foundation.

When Stephen Harper was a member of the ultra-right-wing Northern Foundation in 1989, Mr. Harrison documents that this was a group that had numerous Neo-Nazi skinheads as organizers, as well as a leadership that included a well-known white supremacist and anti-feminist crusader as a prominent leader that sought to take over the mass-media to enable the fulfillment of a right wing agenda.
The Northern Foundation, with the support of corporate allies was able to get Mr. Harper elected in the first place by indeed, taking over the mass-media in Canada. This was done to shelter Mr. Harper from the kinds of critical journalism which had kept him out of power, in the first place. Corporate mass-media owners would seek to remake Mr. Harper and the Conservative Party from being ultra right, into a fabricated image of a non-threatening “moderately conservative” party.
Trevor Harrison also documents that “He [Mr. Harper] had little trouble doing so, as the media had been largely muffled by one fact: press baron Conrad Black, then reaching the height of his powers was also a member of the Northern Foundation and equally shy about having it publicly known.” Mr. Harrison elaborates that, “Journalists feared incurring his wrath as he employed many of them at the time, and was a potential employer for those whom he didn’t employ. Had they made the membership list public, Mr. Black would have been exposed.”
Now that Mr. Harper has been able to seize power by taking over the PC Party (through a breach of contract law), and with the help of, for example, media owners of CanWest Global (that form example, controls many Canadian newspapers including the National Post, and the Ottawa Citizen) who donated money to his political campaigns, the Conservative Party in association with the Northern Foundation now seeks to focus on the fulfillment of an NWO agenda.
Complaining of “socialist/progressive thinking”, and a media/political system controlled by ‘lib/left’ elites, who had been ‘able to impose their agenda on the Canadian people because “small-’c’ conservatives” had been divided. Mr. Harrison further documents that the Northern Foundation was the creation of a number of generally extreme right-wing conservatives, including Anne Hartmann (a director of REAL Women), Geoffrey Wasteneys (A long-standing member of the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada), George Potter (also a member of the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada), author Peter Brimelow, Link Byfield (son of Ted Byfield and himself publisher/president of Alberta Report), and Stephen Harper.
Mr. Harrison, also links former Reform Party leader Preston Manning, who continues to be a leading intellectual of the Conservative Party, right-wing author David Frum (linked to the current U.S. Bush administration), Toronto Sun columnist Peter Worthington and others, as having been affiliated to the Northern Foundation.
The roster of conservative adherents speaking at Foundation conferences in 1989, 1990 and 1992 is equally instructive, further to Mr. Harrison’s very detailed documentation. Among speakers were Dr Walter Block (the Fraser Institute), Ed Vanwoudenberg (leader of the Christian Heritage party), Lubor Zink (an extreme right-wing columnist with the Sun chain — now owned by Quebecor), Dr. John Whitehall (of the Canadian Christian Anti-Communist Crusade), Ron Leitch (president of the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada), Gwen Landolt (founder of the right wing organization REAL Women), Ken Campbell (founder of Renaissance Canada), Paul Fromm (former member of the Western Guard, a neo-fascist group, and later of CFAR), and author William Gairdner. The Foundation’s quarterly, The Northern Voice, had sought to regularly provide advertising space for these same individuals, their fascistic visions, and their related organizations.
Ostensibly, therefore, the Northern Foundation has sought to be a vehicle for bringing together several disparate right-wing groups and otherwise for disseminating a Neo-Nazi ideology. Significantly, it also had cultivated substantial connections to the Reform Party, which would eventually evolve into the current Conservative Party of Canada.
Mr. Harrison also documents, that the Reform Party under the watchful eye of Preston Manning and Stephen Harper, housed former Neo-Nazi Western Guard (an infamous Toronto-area hate group launched in the 1960’s) members like Leigh Smith, and Wolfgang Droege. Mr. Droege had gone on to form Heritage Front and brought other members of that group into the Reform Party and eventual Conservative Party political interests.
More on the makings of the Northern Foundation
The Northern Foundation’s president was Rita Ann Hartmann, widow of former Western Guard radical Paul Hartmann. Ms. Hartmann had moved to Ottawa in 1987 with her six children, two of whom were skinheads who would go on to recruit on behalf of the Heritage Front in the national capital. The Hartmann family, the Toronto Star elaborates. lived in a huge home at 25 Delaware Avenue, in the well-to-do Golden Triangle neighbourhood. From there, Hartmann maintained connections with Neo-Nazi groups across North America. In March 1990, for example, she wrote to the ultra-violent Confederate Hammerskins of Tulsa, Oklahoma, using an alias she favours, Eleanor Cameron. Out of the same address, Ann Hartmann busied herself with REAL Women of Canada. Ms. Hartmann, who has a law degree from the University of Toronto, provides legal advice to REAL Women. In April 1989, for example, she gave an anti-abortion speech to a REAL Women conference at the Radisson Hotel in Ottawa.
Author, Mr. Harrison also further documents that the Northern Foundation’s inaugural conference was also attended by a well-known Conservative MP; a founder of Alberta Report magazine; a senior representative of the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada; and a columnist for the Toronto Sun. Many of those associated with the Northern Foundation would go on to play key roles in the Neo-Nazi Heritage Front. These persons include Steve Dumas, the Foundation’s research officer, who would write a regular column in the Front’s Up Front publication under the pseudonym Steve Baker; Geoff Lupton, who had made an unsuccessful attempt in 1989 to establish a Nationalist Party club at Carleton University and who used the pseudonym Geoff Edwards when working on behalf of the Heritage Front; and Eric (Stilts) Hartmann, son of Paul and Ann, who was moved to pen an anti-abortion editorial for Mr. Droege.
 
“The Northern Foundation Conference was the start of it all for the Heritage Front,” recalls Droege. “From that point on, things really took off.” So too, did things take-over for Mr. Harper who became Prime Minister of Canada, and leader of a party which has apparently sought to fulfill the agenda of the Northern Foundation. That agenda apparently includes blocking candidates like Mr. Warner, which do not present the ideology of the Northern Foundation, that in turn endorses the U.S. President George Bush administration.
Further links with the neo-con National Citizens’ Coalition (NCC)
“The connections between the National Citizens’ Coalition (NCC) and the Reform Party/Canadian Alliance/Conservative Party go back a long way,” also documents Mr. Harrison. Their political agendas have been virtually identical: so called “deficit reduction” against progressive social policies; restriction of immigration; ending universal social programs; lowering taxes for corporations and high-income earners, and ending universal public healthcare,” further elaborates Mr. Harrison.
Colin Brown, the founder of the NCC, began his conservative crusade in 1967 with a full-page ad in the Globe and Mail attacking the federal Liberal government’s plans for a national medicare scheme. Brown would eventually incorporate the far right National Citizens’ Coalition in 1975.
There are no direct ties between the Conservative Party and the National Citizens’ Coalition. Furthermore, with the former President of the National Citizens’ Coalition as leader of the Conservative Party formal ties, with that organization, would be redundant.”
   

Canadian Political Christians.. 2

   
Part 2: It should be clear, apparent to any one reading this post that it seems even very difficult to even try to believe that the New Conservative party of Canada , it’s leaders, it’s supporters, evangelical supporters now too,  are  even really Christians.. persons who do really  care about the good welfare of others.. for the ministry of Jesus and the Apostle undeniably and clearly involved helping the poor and needy people.. not rather the established rich get richer.. Now  I do not have to agree with all that was written here, but under the right of free speech they too are allowed to be heard now too.
  
Still to me a bad Conservative is the same as a bad Liberal… i support neither of them..


“The Canadian National Newspaper:  http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2008/07/14/02459.html
Encore:  Conservatives Put Canada’s Most Vulnerable on Chopping Block Compiled by John Stokes
 
 Prime Minister Stephen Harper Of Canada…

The Liberal Opposition chastises the Conservative government for cutting $1 billion in funding that targets the most vulnerable Canadians, despite at the same time reporting a near-record surplus of $13.2 billion for 2005-06. “The vindictive, mean-spirited cuts targeted at the weak, the needy, the vulnerable and the marginalized in Canada, could only have been dreamt up by the insider group of Conservative Mike Harris hold-over ministers in this government,” said Liberal Leader Bill Graham. “Conservatives have continued their “them versus us” mentality. People without money or clout get clobbered by them. In a country as blessed as ours, how does the Prime Minister justify cuts to funding for immigrant youth, aboriginal women, adults with literacy problems, housing for the disabled and vulnerable workers? “When the Liberal Party inherited the Government of Canada, we had a $42 billion deficit, and we managed it for the people of this country” Mr. Graham continued. “The Conservatives got a $13 billion surplus that they’re squandering and they won’t give a cent to poor people. Mr. Graham further critically observes that “Why on earth is the Prime Minister eliminating research on the health of visible minorities, on child abuse, trafficking of women, support to voluntary group for soup kitchens and for training Canadians with disabilities? Aren’t they Canadians, too? Don’t they deserve value for their money?” Liberals argue that the proposed funding cuts directly target women, Aboriginal Canadians, those in need of affordable housing and to other groups for which the Conservatives have traditionally shown little concern.

Chair of the Liberal Women’s Caucus Belinda Stronach berated the Harper government for cutting $5 million from the Status of Women Canada.”Why is this government anti-women? Or is it they simply don’t care about the well being of 51 percent of the population?” she asked.
The only minority group the Conservatives are interested in supporting is the minority of Canadians who supported them in the last election. Through this latest round of spending cuts, the Harper government has sent a message to Canadians: if you don’t fit the profile of a potential Conservative voter, you are out of luck.
Mr. Harper as a “Christian Pretender”  In Canada, Mr. Harper has continued this dubious tradition by campaigning on a platform supposedly inspired by Christianity. In fact. Mr. Harper has proven once again through the belligerent actions of his government against Canada’s social fabric, that he is as a “Christian Pretender”.  Mr. Harper shows that as a self-professed ‘Christian’ disciple of Jesus, he, like his “boss” Mr. Bush in the United States, is also a complete fraud.
Tommy Douglas, voted the “Greatest Canadian”, who was a Baptist Minister, and devout Christian showed in the political areas, the spirit of a disciple Jesus. In contrast with Mr. Harper, Tommy Douglas defended the plight of poor; fought for women’s rights; for the creation and affirmation of a universal healthcare system in the context of the affirmation of human rights. Mr. Douglas did this while balancing the budget, and earning even the respect and praise of U.S. financial institutions who had previously feared the spectre of “socialism” in Saskatchewan.
It is further apparent that Mr. Harper does not follow the teaching expressed in the Bible, on the vital ethic of social responsibility to each other and to our planet Earth. Instead, it is apparent that in Mr. Harper’s seeks cuts in taxes for multi-millionaires in particular, who own the largest and most exploitative Corporations in Canada, while at the same time cutting more than a billion dollars from government support to disenfranchised. In so doing, Mr. Harper arguably serves the apparent “emissaries of the anti-Christ” who worship what the Bible referred to as Mammon.
It is unfortunate that many Canadians have mistaken Mr. Harper’s agenda as being that of a devout Christian. His self-professed Christianity is nothing more than a “cover story”. This apparent “cover story” is somewhat reminiscent of a criminal who tries to mislead others from within an ultimate hidden agenda.
It is apparent that Mr. Harper’s agenda, is to destroy Canada’s social fabric that had been championed by Tommy Douglas and by other Canadians. Mr. Harper with his U.S. Republican mentors, seeks to destroy and replace a Canadian cultural identity associated with peace and social justice. “
see also

Discern It

 
Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
 

Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.

 

“Is the Holy Spirit the focus of your church? Georgian Banov’s Blasphemous Prophecy at Todd Bentley’s “Ordination.”
 
” In Todd Bentley’s initiation “ordination” ceremony last week one George Banov spoke providing Bentley a ‘prophetic word.’  I must say that initially, at least, he was a welcome relief following the demonic, frenetic, wild head shakin’ thang of Stacey Campbell.  Banov comes in at  6:00 minutes:A quick internet search could not produce much info on Banov; but, he’s obviously of the same heretical Latter Rain ‘stream’ as the others on stage. The reason I wish to call attention to this is the fact that in his ‘word’ Banov uses two Messianic prophetic scriptures and claims God told him these were for Bentley!  Here’s the transcription:  “Todd on behalf of the Eastern European nations and former Communist Countries, we want to tell you that we acknowledge and honor what’s upon you.  And, we give you the keys for Eastern Europe — especially the poor, the rejected, the gypsies. “And The Lord says that because you’ve loved his personal presence there are two anointings that are released on His presence and I just want to release those two anointings on you from the LORD.  By the way, the Lord says ‘you are well pleasing son.’ The Father, Abba, says that to you personally.  The first anointing is the anointing of the pleasure of the LORD.  [emphasis mine] “’Surely He has borne our grief, sickness and weakness and carried our sorrow and the pain and the punishment of us all. He was considered stricken, smitten and afflicted by God; but, He was bruised for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities and chastisement that brought our peace came upon him and by His stripes we were healed and made whole.’  [Isaiah 53:4-6]  And, yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him and in His presence there is fullness of joy and pleasure for evermore. [This is apparently a paraphrase of more than one scripture with another.] And, God’s releasing his pleasure of what He did to Jesus upon you Todd. “And, the second anointing that he wants to release upon you is in Psalm 45 but it’s also in Hebrews chapter one verse nine.  It says, ‘Because you have loved righteousness and you have delighted in integrity and virtue and uprightness in heart and thought and action and you have hated injustice and iniquity; therefore God, your God has anointed you with the oil of exultant joy and gladness above and beyond your companions.’  We bless you.” Not only does he quote two Messianic scriptures and applies these to Bentley, he even goes so far as to claim that the Lord referred to Todd as a ‘well pleasing son’ thus putting Bentley on par with Jesus! [Matthew 3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22]  Does this not show this group to be promoting Manifest Sons of God doctrine – part of the heresy of the Latter Rain teachings?  And, no one batted an eyelash on stage or in the audience.   In fact, they clapped and cheered.   I wish to point out that there is only one true ( source of the ) anointing( as opposed to many ??)  – the anointing of the Holy Spirit upon true believers who accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.  24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.  26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit — just as it has taught you, remain in him.  [1 John 2:20-27 NIV] To promote that we can attain Christlikeness this side of glory is tantamount to denying Jesus Christ’s exclusive Divinity as the One and only Son of God.  As the Apostle John points out above, this is the spirit of antichrist. submitted by Lee  “
 
Nice to note the reference to the poor too but I undeniably, for sure have received many different anointings in my life for various specific services from the Holy spirit by the laying on of hands now too,
 
“Lee, “in your opinion, Bentley’s fails”? Do you not value others opinions? Do you believe you can be wrong on this? This is what I meant when I referred to a wrong interpretation of scripture.”
 
“How do you handle it when other Christians disagree with you?  Lee “
 
“And, remember, always share humbly that you may be wrong. Your interpretation of the matter may be wrong. You respect their position, even if it’s contrary to your human interpretation of a non-absolute of scripture. Don’t butcher them publicly and them him hurt and attacked. Rather, pray for them, speak well of them, love them and lift them up. Beyond that, it’s not your battle to fight. “
 
And thenonconformer next said.. It is very clear that the much too many false Critics of the Pentecostals will try to grasp at any straws to falsely bash the Pentecostal and still try to justify their immoral acts..

Any Christian being plagued with critics, opponents, unsubstantiated personal attacks too now, is really nothing new even to the past apostles, prophets , Jesus Christ himself who have face many similar bullies, groups etc., the devil is too ready an accuser of the Brethren, and tries to continually discredit any work of God even since the time of Jesus Christ himself now too even using inapplicable and distorted Biblical reasons and Bible verses now too
I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings any of of the latter rain churches..
   
A MAJORITY OF THE CRITICS OF THE LATTER DAY REVIVALS, are too clearly their often diverting back wrongfully the topic discussions, making often personal insulting, unacceptable derogatory remarks is even THEIR typical unChristlike bulling Reponses, self righteous, a superiority attitude, and what else? is not the right approach from anyone and it does continue to reflect poorly on ALL OF THEM STILL too…
 
THE WAY THEY THEMSELVES DO UNDENIABLY POINT FINGERS AT THEIR SELF DEFINED OPPONENTS, IN A JUDGMENTAL MANNER, UNLOVING, UNKIND, UNJUSTIFIABLE MANNER IS CLEARLY THE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE NOW TOO.
 
And very revealing what they are firstly like themselves
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/understanding-me-and-others-better/
 
 “To the non conformer- Got any examples there or are you just ranting? For the record, I believe in Charismatic gifts and vehemently oppose these latter rain revivals. You’ve simply dismissed any opposition to this heresy as unloving and unkind by using blanket statements like: “I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly…” “and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings any of of the latter rain churches…”  “…making often personal insulting, unacceptable derogatory remarks is even THEIR typical unChristlike bulling Reponses, self righteous, a superiority attitude…””
 
In reply now thenonconformer said  I have read in the last month every wordpress site, and many others sites openly bashing, abusing, slandering the Florida revival, Todd, the latter day Pentecostals and yet to date I personally have not read, seen one valid criticism, decent presentation at all.. what a great shocker.. It all seems more like little immature, jealous kids still fighting over which one of them will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and who will be last.. what a real absurdity. Don’t get desperate but get real… like I have rightfully said I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings of any of the latter rain churches..  I did not say Charismatic supposedly churches.. cause we know those often mean rather the Catholic Pentecostals.. as to what the Bible says is only how you here do interpret it.. not the Holy Spirit.  I have been a Christian for 50 years and a Pentecostal pastor for the last 30 years, and I have attended the latter day churches too and often.. and specifically what about you? not the supposed others..  The Latter Rain movement was rejected by the AoG Pentecostals in 1948 as heretical… and they are speaking for God now.. dream on.. There are other pentacostal denominations who support them, approve of them, me included. The full Gospel Business Men’s fellowship uses a similar approach for decades now too. many persons bashing other Pentecostals with clearly a hidden agenda is still the wrong thing to do now too.. they are not doing it in love or humility Cleary as required by the Bible now too.  http://pbulow.tripod.com/ http://groups.msn.com/AFOLLOWEROFCHRIST https://postedat.wordpress.com/
 
You ask “are you ranting”… my how you like to bash, insult people.. you do not know to even try to judge them, quite immature and unspiritual too.. looking for a big fight cause someone had stepped on your sore toes.. I certainly hope you do not profess wrongfully to be a Christian to anyone, cause you do not act like it for sure… nor do I hope you abuse all the people like that who make a post here.. a sure way to next lose many people still too. Stay in God’s love and not rather in the flesh.. we may not agree, do have a right to differ, but we still do need to show love to the others. Need more input from me on the subjects.. I have it detailed even on 5 internet sites.. including https://postedat.wordpress.com http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/
 
You say  ” Todd Bentley is a savage wolf in sheep’s clothing and a false apostle, who is being led by a counterfeit “Jesus” and “spirit”” , Bud  “
 
Thenonconformer, “my how you like to bash, insult people..” “…looking for a big fight cause someone had stepped on your sore toes.. I certainly hope you do not profess wrongfully to be a Christian to anyone…” Tell me what is even scriptural right about this one sided, bullying, bashing, lying, a argumentative, ungodly, unchristlike posts clearly not done in love too.. hope you still do not profess to be a Christian, cause you give a really bad image to the real Christians.
 
>>What am I missing out on by not falling into line with the latter rain heresy? Salvation? “The next wave?” Becoming a “manifest Son of God” (i.e. Jesus)? Why should I conform as you have (contrary to your name) to this heretical doctrine?  
and you lie and distort often what I have said still too.. I never asked you to fall in line, I had asked you to act like real Christians, and show real love, not mostly hatred rather..   Like i have said When you talk about what the scriptures says you honestly should also point out that you mean it is how you now interpret what the scripture says.. cause too many of us read different things out of the same scriptures as we all do know firstly.. The people who also tell us to use only the Bible often still lie further to us.. they ask us also to use men’s commentaries, instead of the Holy spirit to next interpret the Bible. (Eph 4:18 KJV) Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

I tend to look at both sides of the issues myself.. for that matter I have now been both non Christian, and Christian, both Baptist and Pentecostal, and both groups still do have major errors, weakness, inadequacies, and they now also have some good points too.. but still there is no such thing as a perfect denomination now as well
But one other thing often is clearly is evident to me visiting, reading the many so called Professing Christians sites mostly all telling us the supposed truth, postings often more with dishonest hidden agendas, poorly researched too, very biased now too.. It also seems to me they are also still are trying to convince themselves as to what is the truth is and no one else, they build up their own false straw arguments, and then do reply to their own arguments. It is generally too often now not an honest presentation, discussion of the topic they have presented.
 
Why is it so many people (control freaks)  try too limit the power of God, and they work so hard to try to tell us what God can and cannot do today.. for sure, definitely it is not only cause they are spiritually immature, have a hidden agenda, are promoting themselves, or they are unoriginal parrots who repeat what others have said , but it is often still mainly because Satan for sure is behind all this too.
    
Is 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no one else; there is no God besides Me. I will gird {and} arm you, though you have not known Me,(Jer 32:27 KJV) Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

 

Aside from that fact many do not know, read , they do not understand the scriptures, the Bible in reality but merely mouth what they think or what others have said instead..
 
Latter rain is a term referring to the new outpouring of the Holy Spirit on today’s Pentecostals. The events of Pentecost are known as the former rain.
The idea of latter rain comes from this Old Testament text, which precedes Joel’s prophecy that God will pour out his Spirit on all people:
Be glad, O people of Zion,
rejoice in the LORD your God,
for he has given you
the autumn rains in righteousness.
He sends you abundant showers,
both autumn and spring rains, as before.
Joel 2:23
The early Pentecostals connect their own experience of the Spirit with that of the disciples, and Peter’s quoting of Joel’s prophecy in Acts 2: 16-21 is a further prophecy that God would pour out his Spirit again at a later time.
They tend to state that the pouring out of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost as the early autumn rain, and the second pouring out of the Spirit, that they were experiencing, as the later spring rains; the Latter Rain.
The idea of latter rain is found throughout many denominations of Pentecostalism, but specifically the Latter Rain Movement, founded in 1948, teaches that the second coming of Jesus is due to happen soon and that latter rain is evidence for this.
 
I have read in the last month every wordpress site, and many others sites openly bashing, abusing, slandering the Florida revival, Todd, the latter day Pentecostals and yet to date I personally have not read, seen one valid criticism, decent presentation at all.. what a great shocker.. It all seems more like little immature, jealous kids still fighting over which one of them will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and who will be last.. what a real absurdity.
 
Don’t get desperate but get real… like I have rightfully said I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attended these meetings, or the meetings of any of the latter rain churches..
 
I did not say Charismatic supposedly churches.. cause we know those often mean rather the Catholic Pentecostals..
 
as to what the Bible says it is only how you here do interpret it.. not the Holy Spirit.
 
Need more input from me on the subjects.. I have it detailed even on 5 internet sites.. including https://postedat.wordpress.com http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/
 
Some people would say I too have never seen alcohol do one good thing for anyone rather mostly a lot of evil.. . and do look at things associated with alcohol…bars, strip clubs, drunks, DUI’s, addiction and the like. Tell me who your friends are and I can always tell what you are like too. These are not activities a true Christian should participate in. Therefore, it is better to SHUN even an appearance of evil. And yes Christians are commanded that our bodies are not to be mastered by anything…our bodies are the temple of God. We are always to be in self control. not rather selfish oriented. Also, the wine Jesus and the apostle used, wine was likely not fermented in biblical times as it is today, it was rather grape juice, and was unlikely to cause drunkenness as easily. Falsely for too many professing Christians Smoking, Homosexuality is okay, drinking alcohol is okay, using profanity is okay, tax evasion is OK, Cheating, lying, stealing is OK.. Get a real life. Get Jesus It does sounds like many always rejected the truth of the Bible, Jesus and have finally found a denomination that supports their sin. The Gospel according to them. Lucky them? Not at all. They also tend to show the mental sloppiness, dishonesty common to the liberals, bashers of Pentecostals and fundamentalists, not those elf real Christians for sure.
 
A preacher had recently written to me and said to me that we all should get more of the Word into us, meaning the Bible, but what we all do need is more of the Holy Spirit, starting with His fruit of love, for I also now could not help but notice how unkind, proud, arrogant this preacher still was himself.. too many preachers now know the Word but they seem too easily forget to also live it themselves firstly, and I rightfully would rather see a sermon practiced, then merely hear it lip service preached too. Much too easier to preach it to others, harder to live it oneself..
 
(Neh 8:10 KJV) Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the LORD is your strength
 
” I see there is some objection to calling Latter Rain a heresy, as well as Banov’s comments to Bentley. In particular, here is one comment I’d like to address: “It is very clear that the much too many false Critics of the pentecostals will try to grasp at any straws to falsely bash the pentecostal and still try to justify their immoral acts..”

I would like to point out that it was the Assembly of God, a pentecostal denomination, who believes in the practice of all the spiritual gifts, who officially declared that Latter Rain was heretical.”
 
“I doubt your comment above about the AoG declaring Latter Rain a heresy will have much affect. Someone else further up the thread already pointed that out and basically that fact was laughed at as inconsequential.”
 
“Is it not possible that Todd loves righteousness and has delighted in integrity? “
 
“The problem with these comments comes down to arrogance, in all humility when you guys bash “Fuller” that tells me you are coming at this from with far more “pride” than you are compassion. If a brother is in error go to them, have you written Todd Bentley a certified letter? Do you have compassion?”
 
“Lee unfortunately all your responses are based on “your” interpretation of Scripture. Your foundation is not Scripture, but yourself and how you interpret it.
There is no truth to the accusations you are making against Todd Bentley. I pray that your eyes would be opened to all you are missing in the Holy Spirit.

 Am I saying everything Todd Bentley does or has ever done is correct? No, I have not seen everything, what I have seen has been done with integrity, with the power of God, with humility and with a focus on Jesus Christ and Him being worshipped. Also unless you have any experience with healing, miracles, prophecy, resurrections, encounters with God, etc you have no right to make a judgement. You have no experience with which to even judge or speak to others about. Until you are doing the works of Jesus your interpretation of Scripture is worth little. Your Kingdom of God is based your talk, the one in the Bible is based on power. I pray your eyes would be opened to the more that God has for you!”

thenonconformer said.. If you don’t answer questions, whatever. It is cause what I have posted is very clear and undeniable too already and because I am not foolish to play your fighting game, get a real life and act like a real christian.. and here is what I have posted about the OAG
 

The Assemblies of God Pentecostal supporters, members are noted for their opposition to the Florida Lakeland revival, and to the Latter day movement.. and I rightfully as I do dislike their too often abusive unchristian like posts too.. but why the opposition? Jealous? How wordly, ungoldy? It supposedly competes with their own revival?
“I have just returned from Buffalo and am now home in Pensacola. What awesome services on Sunday! Pastor Tommy Reid said to his congregation, “There are moments when God moves in a church and today is one of them!” I am always humbled when the Lord moves. From the first service at 8 am to the last service at 11:30 God moved in all three. The first service, which is mainly seniors, had a wonderful sense of God’s power! As I prayed for the saints of the church, each one fell under the power of God! How humbling! When the second service crowd started to move into the sanctuary they saw their beloved seniors prostrate out on the floor! That’s enough to build anyone’s faith. I had the privilege of praying for probably another two to three hundred people. The second service rolled right into the third service which is primarily a multi cultural service. God was faithful and moved again touching lives at the altar! http://www.brownsville-revival.org/
 
and like many other Pentecostals, Alliance, Baptist, Evangelical Churches they falsely do not include helping poor people in their own churches as an essential Christian doctrine now too? why?
 
(Rom 15:26 KJV) For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. (2 Cor 9:9 KJV) (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. (Gal 2:10 KJV) Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. (James 2:5 KJV) Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?  (James 2:6 KJV) But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
 
“I just quickly read your most recent post; and, I’m not sure why you insist on bringing in things totally unrelated to the post. You have no idea if anyone who posts here does or does not give to the poor in our own churches. I don’t even wish to field a response to it. Please refrain from these excursions in the future or your entire post will be deleted.”
 
 thenonconformer replied  Actually I said their church doctrines do not include  giving to the poor and why was that ? you yourself had referred to the poor people in your starting address..
 
thenonconformer replied  I HAVE RIGHTFULLY BECOME SUSPICIOUS OF WHAT I HEAR, READ, AND TEST IT RIGHTFULLY TOO.. and I do even look for their too often, false hidden agendas as well.. Now some persons not help but notice that bashing of the mostly white man’s Latter Day Pentecostal revival, denomination by the Mostly Black AOG Pentecostal movement? is this what it is really all about now here too? But also I have never said that the Latter Day Pentecostal revival leaders were saints, in fact I have often said the opposite and for specific valid reasons. But I see no valid Proof still that Todd Bentley is totally wrong..
 
I was in a super great Church once, ( a latter day denomination- The Calgary Christian Centre) even though the Pastors were stealing, abusing the funds, committing adultery, counseling divorce, gossiping, slandering, lying, and so forth. The Holy Spirit due to the prayers of some of the faithful persons there was really moving in their services, and many people were getting saved, healed and delivered, and the praise and worship services were really great. God specifically had told me to go to this church as well, but he had put a condition on it, he said do not talk with, communicate, fellowship with any of the pastors. I had done some great personal counseling in that Church as well.. met some great and also bad people.
 
But eventually one day next came when I had to talk to the same pastors, and even to tell them that God was going to get rid of them, to next deal with them negatively and God did! God next broke down this large Calgary church because it had grown big in size and had become perverse. All of the pastors were next removed from it as well.

Micah 3:6 KJV) Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. 7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. 8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.  

I had good reasons supposedly for not Pastoring once, one of which was there now supposedly were plenty of other good Pastors, much better Pastors than me around.. and both arguments were lies as God himself next showed me firsthand when I interviewed about 45 evangelical pastors.. even about their marital counselling practises… which is almost none! This is also really surprising when about 70 percent of all people even in the churches tend to have major marital problems sooner or later.. Pretender, liar and that is so typical of evangelical pastors in Canada, elders, and pastors of the false Christian Missionary Alliance church now too. I wrote about this false church before too. No wonder most of the evangelical pastors as well do commit adultery, or steal, commit tax evasions, gossip, slander, abuse others and falsely counsel divorce now too. In reality 70 percent of all of the the pastors are still really bad, still doing a real bad job.. for firstly they tend not to use the Bible at all in their own personal counseling practices but rather they tend to do use an immoral, humanistic, psychological approach, or they simple say get divorced and wrongfully too. Their actual daily usage of the Bible, not books really can show you how good or bad pastors they still are, and never mind what useless Bible college or commentary also that they graduated from still.

 
Many persons go to church expecting personally to be helped by the pastor and they do next walk away disappointed. Their first normal mistake was having any personal expectations of any help from the Pastors, even though this may be an honest expectation, for our help is in the Lord and all our expectations should come only of Him.
 
Try to go to church expecting only to see Jesus Christ, to get any desired help from Jesus only, and not any man, or women, and expect nothing else, have no expectation of any good from the pastors, elders and you certainly will next not be disappointed.
Because of my poor health I have had to retire from a physicaly active Ministry and next many people could not understand how I could be by myself alone, for such long periods of time, and for me it is very easy for I have Jesus to go directly to talk with, I do prefer his company above all others rightfully too. Learn to talk to Him directly about your concerns, not firstly the Pastors!!
 
(Luke 9:36 KJV) And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen. (John 8:9 KJV) And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst
 
Secondly the majority of these pastors they do not provide at all any real counselling help to their own flock in need even in their own churches, and especially not related to marital, employment problems also even in Evangelical, Pentecostal churches. This approach of their is not really pastoring.. this is stealing money from the sheep! Sadly most pastors seem to want to only to preach, to talk big and to be praised for it, to be recognized, and admired by the others, for they tend to have a false, big ego that they want filled, but they still wrongfully not want to do also the real work, the dirty work at the sheep’s level.. Yes these same pastoral hypocrites also do falsely tend to lie, slander others , gossip and also to delegate blame on one of the spouses even in a martial problem situation, even with invalid still reasons, basically for them not to personally get involved. The pastor would say something like the husband or the wife was at fault.. so the pastor is still talking only about the negative symptoms of a real marital problem, and what is he real or false solution rather.. pass the buck wrongfully still to the others? Unacceptable and I would rightfully not give any of my money at all to this type of Pastor or his Church!
 
Pastoral marriage counselling it is also still mandatory for all Pastors, all of them too, it is mandatory still that they do also help each and every sheep in their flock, and do home visits as well.. and these two also are not optional.. but sadly majority of Pastors they really still do not have love for the sheep.. and doing the dirtier jobs they wrongfully run away for it.. and God himself told me that this was all was immorally acts on the part of both of these pastors.. I never run away from any hard counselling.. for I got God to help me.. Do thus tell the pastor that up to 70 percent of the people have marriage problems, it is always the biggest pastoral need too.. and if he does not do this work than he is really not a real pastor.. just another hireling, or a wolf in sheep clothing.. You do clearly also have my permission to send these remarks to them as well! I have already personally fired about 25 pastors in my life time.. and I do not hesitate to publicly expose them, rebuke them rightfully remove them from office still.. any of the bad ones..
 
(Prov 27:5 KJV) Open rebuke is better than secret love. (Luke 17:3 KJV) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. (Phil 2:15 KJV) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; (1 Tim 5:20 KJV) Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. (2 Tim 4:2 KJV) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. (Titus 1:13 KJV) This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; (Titus 2:15 KJV) These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. (Rev 3:19 KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Better to be rebuked by me than God next directly, for God then will not be so forgiving.. (Psa 18:39 KJV) For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me 40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me. 41 They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not. 42 Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets. (Psa 18:44 KJV) As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me. 45 The strangers shall fade away, and be afraid out of their close places. (Psa 18:46 KJV) The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted. 47 It is God that avengeth me, and subdueth the people under me. 48 He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man. (Psa 18:49 KJV) Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name. 50 Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and showeth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.
 
The trouble with anyone lying is that soon one will likely end up believing in one’s own lies and one tends to live out the lies next, to act upon their false delusions.This applies to people who lie to the courts, to politicians who lie to the citizens as well.. to Pastors who lie to their congregations.. Now I have personally seen this happen many times .. For example a pastor was personally asked to repent of his own immorality. His own family asked him if the charges were true. The pastor replied you cannot believe anything the persons says he is crazy.. Soon the pastor’s family started to worry about this supposedly crazy person. To keep up the pretense the pastor even bought next a bullet proof car for protection for himself. This increased the stress upon his own family.. They lived out the pastor’s lie.. This was a punishment for the lies now as well. This same truth applies to ANYONE, Minister, lawyers, spouses who lie to us or the courts too. In the end the pastor still lost his church anyway, because he next was still exposed for his wrong doings, cause you cannot lie to everyone.. some people saw the truth.. and did something good about it too.. they let the Pastor go.
 
(James 4:17 KJV) Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. 

thenonconformer  also said My same posts are posted on many sites too.. deleting them will do nothing.. but show to all how free speech is falsely denied by false excuses again

http://groups.msn.com/AFOLLOWEROFCHRIST But I mostly still do what the Lord tells me, not what others say I should do..
 
 

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Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
 
Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.