Sinners

pinocchio-paradox

 One of the worst things you can do is to think that such a person, spouse, relative, family member, pastor, politician is a nice guy, OR ANY INSTITUTION, CHURCH NOW AS WELL  and so it  is worth being worshipped, praised.. well cause very shortly God will show you really what even the person now is really like, a sinner like all the rest of us.. and the political party, organization, church you worshipped..  If you also do try to maintain you are a good person now as well, God will not let that false pride stand before him as well and he will show to you and many others what you really are still are like.. For God is a jealous God and will have no false  idols NOW before him.. God says without me you can do nothing, nothing good that will last permanently, that the canker worms will next not destroy as well.. I have seen so many good guys in my life, some have been my close good friends, but real life next showed to us all what they really were like next too.. sinners.  https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/08/31/get-real-now/

liars

 

 If we all got what we are due.. it would be Hell.
 
(1 Ki 8:46 KJV)  If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
 
(Eccl 7:20 KJV)  For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
 
(1 John 3:6 KJV)  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
 
(1 John 5:18 KJV)  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
 
(John 15:5 KJV)  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 16  If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 15:7   If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
 
(Prov 8:13 KJV)  The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy,
 
(Prov 11:2 KJV)  When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
 
(Prov 16:18 KJV)  Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
 
(Prov 29:23 KJV)  A man’s pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.
 
(1 John 2:16 KJV)  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
   
(2 Cor 11:2 KJV)  For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
 
(Isa 14:11 KJV)  Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. (Mark 9:48 KJV)  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
 
(Isa 51:8 KJV)  For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.
 
(Psa 22:6 KJV)  But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
 
(Isa 41:14 KJV)  Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
 
(Jer 17:5 KJV)  Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. 6  For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. 7  Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. 8  For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
 
(Deu 27:18 KJV)  Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.
 
(Jer 48:10 KJV)  Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.
  
(Exo 34:14 KJV)  For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
 
(Deu 4:24 KJV)  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
 
(Deu 6:15 KJV)  (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
  
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GET REAL NOW

I do not really worry about what is happening in the world, but rather mainly what is happening in the Churches,  for judgment begins in the house of God. God is still coming for a church without spot and blemish
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One of the worst things you can do is to think that such a person, spouse, relative, family member, pastor, politician is a nice guy, OR ANY INSTITUTION, CHURCH NOW AS WELL  and so it  is worth being worshipped, praised.. well cause very shortly God will show you really what even the person now is really like, a sinner like all the rest of us.. and the political party, organization, church you worshipped..  If you also do try to maintain you are a good person now as well, God will not let that false pride stand before him as well and he will show to you and many others what you really are still are like.. For God is a jealous God and will have no false  idols NOW before him.. God says without me you can do nothing, nothing good that will last permanently, that the canker worms will next not destroy as well.. I have seen so many good guys in my life, some have been my close good friends, but real life next showed to us all what they really were like next too.. sinners.   https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/sinners/
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(1 Cor 2:2 KJV)  For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.  (Gal 6:14 KJV)  But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
 
big_bad_preacher
The last thing on my mind when I go to a new evangelical Christian church is that I will be abused, lied to, slandered, robbed, misused, persecuted  but sadly now too often these days that is not the reality. Why?  Not just the ungodly Liberals but the far right itself often still coerces  others who do not go along with them by “Borking” them.   Now ”Taiwanizing”  means calumniating, ostracizing, excluding and hopefully ultimately de-legitimizing a country. Doing the same thing to a person is called “Borking”. Borking  is “to attack a person’s reputation and views unfairly,” includes the concerted attack on the  challenger’s  character, background and philosophy.. Both Liberal and  Conservative activists have been making the same action over and over again in regard to  the so called  their opponents, news media,   reporters: The borked opponents aren’t debated but merely  shut  down, censored,  their free speech denied, and often next immediately they are forcibly removed, kicked out, never allowed to be discussed again too by anyone,  and hopefully insuring their person and his views being totally excluded from the rest of the local group, community.  The borked opponents aren’t debated but merely  shut  down, censored,  their free speech denied, and often next immediately they are forcibly removed, kicked out, never allowed to be discussed again too by anyone,  and hopefully insuring their person and his views being totally excluded from the rest of the local group, community. The fact this is too often practiced in too many evangelical churches of all places is astounding. The real Irony and hypocrisy is the right wing often claim they rather now are being Borked even while they are Borking the others.;  Example to fire an honest government official in an attempt to prevent embarrassment to and exposure of a dishonest government officeholder who has conspired to commit high crimes, the 1973 unacceptable firing, massacre of Watergate Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox by Solicitor General Robert Bork, orchestrated by both  Bork and President Richard Nixon . 
 
 As a professional, University graduate I now  was always solely responsible for my work output, no one told me how to do it too, I had always worked on my own with minimum supervision. When I   stepped   into a church, in many or most churches I was, am treated as if I am now in pre school generally, where I am immediately given a whole bunch of rules, even as to where I can sit, what I can wear, how much money I should give to the church, what I can do and cannot do etc.. mostly a totally demonic, controlling, dominating environment, so much so that  I rightfully often think that  the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ themselves are not allowed to express themselves, not given freedom to manifest themselves too. If I dare to openly question anything I  am threatened with police action and immediate church dismissal too. Forget about being showed mutual respect in this caged circus rather. This is all just perversity and not freedom in Christ.  Thank God that not all churches now are like this.
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(Gal 3:26 KJV)  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

as to some  (Job 13:4 KJV)  But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value.

(1 Cor 14:29 KJV)  Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

(1 Cor 14:31 KJV)  For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Colossians 3:21 “Fathers, provoke not your children [to anger], lest they be discouraged.”  Matthew 7:3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

The Bible itself cleary posts the name of many of those now who had sinned, and did not repent, and some of their negative consequences too, as a warning to all the others who would equally be now next tempted to sin and not repent . Bad shepherds, priests, ungentle control freaks  included who had allowed the flock to be abused.

I USED TO BE NAÏVE ONCE AS TO WHAT GOES ON IN CHURCHES AND WHAT PASTORS CAN BE REALLY LIKE NOW TOO. ALSO WHAT POLITICS, JUDGES, LAWYERS, COPS, PROFESSIONALS CAN BE LIKE TOO.  A BAD PASTOR FIRSTLY TO REPENT NOW NEXT TOO? DON’T too often now EXPECT FOR SURE A MIRACLE HERE OVERNIGHT TOO.

I still would rightfully rather see pastor first live a sermon instead of too often now merely preach it to others and I really do think it is so farcical how some sinfully, proud evangelical pastors are ready to condemn others, to gossip about, to now preach about the other person’s  sins but someone how they can’t seem to deal with their own false abuse of others, their own sins, and their own false pride. Sadly I have often been in bad Christian churches where the clearly crooked pastor Stéphane Chauvette Associate Pastor  to turn off attention off himself would bash some other churches, some other denominations and some other persons, but all that bashing of his now did not still deny his own sins and his own wrong doings though now. The Bad preacher are not the only ones who can preach about other people’s sins and demand others to repent, so can I, bad pastors now included and I rightfully  do often as well. The older I get being falsely persecuted  next in the House of God, evangelical churches firstly now, seems to be a norm for me rather than an exception.. 

 

Their CONTROLLING BEHAVIOR, their false dominating behavior,  is Public Enemy Number One.. If you are a   Control freak you are not only still an unrealistic, immature, immoral person  but you  may have a serious personality disorder.  Slave drivers are driven by the devil.  https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/control-freaks/ http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/more-about-control-freaks/

While Moses was a great example of meekness it seems many pastors are not these days.. they are anything but meek, they are rather controlling, harsh, unkind,  dictatorial, abusive, insulting, unloving,, rather I have often also met in evangelical circles the despotic foremen,  dictatorial types, bully, jungle fighter   leaders, the same persons who think they are supreme over all others, they can take the law into their own hands, and even do what they want over any others, physically now as well. I have not totally now understood how these unacceptable, abusive slave drivers got to this personality stage or why they falsely think in their abusive pride they will get away with it forever now as well. And yet they mostly lie and deny these sins, falsely claiming rather they are good, loving, kind..

(Gal 6:1 KJV)  Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2  Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3  For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceived himself. 4  But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5  For every man shall bear his own burden.

Now as I was also reflecting about my many past posts on the net  in the last few years I was really saddened to note that too many of them were about bad , greedy people trying to steal , trying to get other people’s money for themselves, stealing the money, or getting  it under false pretences. The love of more money is still the basis of what many of the wrong doings is, was all about..(Eccl 8:11 KJV)  Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil

I was also very sad to note as to how many evangelical, Christian  pastors, politicians falsely approve of drinking alcohol even though their real Christian colleagues preach against it..   Fundamental evangelical pastors preach it is a sin for any Christian to drink alcohol, Liberal Christians such as Catholics or Eastern Orthodox church say it is not. But one thing no one can deny is how harmful drinking alcohol is.. in Russia 60 percent of men and women die due to drinking alcohol.. how much hurt and damage does alcohol drinking cause in Canada? and how much money does it costs the taxpayers now too? Much too much too.

I have often heard it said that most Canadians Canada wide now are still like fearful sheep they are too ready to be fleeced, sadly it also seems they must have ostrich genes in them for when you present negative truths they tend to often rather bury their heads in the sand as well it  seems.. especially in in too many of the evangelical churches.. or  the ostrich sheep in Alberta who also now too often seem to think no Conservative politician can ever do any wrong rather it has to be the other bad guys, you know the liberals. Or the BQ separatists, the communist NDP… Ironically the wolves in sheep clothing exist Canada wide, in evangelical churches, political circles too now, and I guess for me telling the truth that is why so many of them hate me, do not hesitate to ban me or kick me out of their often also  bad churches now too..

I had attended a recent comical church service,  New Beginnings Ministry 9412 Rue Clement Lasalle, QC H8R1T5 Phone: (514) 363-1080., a farcical circus, not the first time now too,  where the pastor Stéphane Chauvette Associate Pastor was preaching about everything, bashing everyone else, but somehow he could not keep his own promises, his  own word, or stay on a specific valid subject. And he made it clear if you  rock his boat he will next also kick you off the ship.. The modern Christian evangelical fundamentalism demands a false blind obedience to a one man minister, ministry and all that he says and falsely bypass the mutually submissiveness eldership rule pattern set forth in the New Testament, book of Acts now as well. This bad fundamental church is no exception to this.  FaLSE, CULTISH CHURCH LIKE THIS ONE, LESS THAN A HUNDRED PERSONS NOW TOO, THE 2 PREACHERS THERE THEY LIKE TO JUSTIFY THEIR SMALL NUMBERS BECAUSE THEY PREACH THE TRUTH, THUS  THEY ARE A REMNANT, SPECIAL,  DISTINCT GROUP  OF TRUE BELIEVERS. Would be a lot better if they acted now like true genuine  true Christians firstly, and practice  real love towards others  too. This hypocritical, pretentious fundamental right winged evangelical pastor of this New Life Beginnings in LaSalle, Quebec  Preaches next openly  now  for us not to believe any of the news media and for us not to  have anything to do with any person who drinks wine **, and to stand up against all of the people who do any wrong, to even openly speak to them, ( as long as it is not the pastor himself  for sure) and yet he lied and says come and talk to me your pastor after church. I am always really interested to hear from you about all of your concerns but  in reality when you do try to talk to him.. for next  I thus told him that our evangelical Canadian PM Stephen Harper, the supposedly good Christian now drinks beer/wine, well the pastor really got upset at me for this..  since he himself cannot handle negative truths, he the ostrich no good pastor refused to further talk with me  and said  he was tired now, he  refuses to hear any of that, he refuses to believe any of that, for that is all gossip,  slanders, and also we do not allow anyone who causes disturbance, problems, gives any criticism in our church, so please leave now. So much for this supposedly Christ like church and their false professing Christian love, false brotherly love, their supposed openness now, and one’s free speech too..

(Mat 24:48 KJV)  But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49  And shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50  The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(1 Cor 5:11 KJV)  But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12   For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13   But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

** The Pastor had said that God does not let us to talk to anyone who drinks wine, but this is a rather distorted, extreme interpretation of the Bible, The Bible clearly says WE ARE NOT TO FELLOWSHIP WITH A CHRISTIAN PERSON  WHO GETS DRUNK.. now that is really different from not talking to any of the people who drink wine.. and why is this pastor so ready not to talk with others now too? so ready to smite them, to kick them out of church? If you have love for someone you are willing to talk with them, but if you do not have love for them, especially if, when you know they do not support you, do not agree with your presentation, do not agree  with your point of view, you as a pastor too now can personally can instead  refuse to love them, you refuse to talk to them, you find any excuse to reject, ostracize, divorce them basically to deny, to cover up the unacceptable reality that you yourself the pastor actually do not have any love for them.

Our Freedom of speech to many of these despotic, self centered, agenda oriented  preacher  is generally one way, they alone are allowed to do all of the talking, and no one else, everyone else is only allowed to listen is also what I have directly experienced here too. If you challenge what they say they falsely do immediately divorce you, even physically assault you and kick you out of the church now too.  The same pastor says he does not believe anything the news media writes at all. So who does he believe? only himself it seems and anyone else like minded. So what truth is he really now peddling, a distorted ones clearly. For the record, Stephen Harper Prime Minister of Canada himself now did  not even deny to me that he drinks beers and/or alcohol, or that he even gives presents of alcohol to others as well. So why do any of the others? Why did this pastor? They can only face the negative reality from a distance… Not  the first time I do now meet such fundamental ostriches.. http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/alcoholic/

Please do have the local LaSalle police remind the pastors, elders, members, adherents of this Pentecostal church that is is still illegal for the pastor or anyone else now there too to physically assault anyone, even if it is in their church. They may have a right to ask anyone to leave their premises, but as I have witnessed myself now they do not have a right to physically grab, lay hands, assault any person in their church even now too especially when he did nothing wrong.. That right is only for the police and is limited for them as well.. If someone next after being asked refuses to leave the church when asked they can call the police. I told them that I was glad to leave this church on my own free will and will be just as glad not to come back too.


Honor Killings, Violence. In reality too the Cops themselves, RCMP included, now   are not the only one who resort to violence when their authority is threatened, so do some clearly bad, hot tempered evangelical  pastors now too..  I too before have already experienced in Canada  a  direct physical assault of me by  a rogue Pentecostal pastor who had punched me, physically assaulted me, with no provocation too,, in front of a witness, backed up with a police report , cause I had refused to go to his church. An another Pentecostal pastor and even a church elder,  were  attempting to physically abuse me to stop my public revelations of his unacceptable acts, thefts of money too. and the same thing had happened to my own brother on another occasion and he too had called the police and reported the matter who also had experience physical assault attempt  by a Plymouth Brethren pastor. But none of this should be a surprise when a pastor’s authority, financial security is threatened ehh..
 
OVER MANY YEARS I HAVE LEARNED THAT PERSONAL, RELIGIOUS CONFLICTS SEEM TO BE UNAVOIDABLE EVEN IN ANY CHRISTIAN CHURCH.. AND WE ALL SHOULD KNOW AS TO HOW SHOULD WE DEAL WITH THEM, REACT TO THEM.. MANY PEOPLE FALSELY RUN AWAY FROM THEM, TRY TO DENY THEY EXISTS.
 
It is a basic fact the we must all learn to live, communicate in love with one another, and his communication does not mean we have to accept all wrong doing now as well for the devil and his followers will often come to us to try to cause false bondages upon us, to detour us or divert us from the freedoms, truths that we all do we have in Christ. And it is very likely if you or the leader refuses to talk with someone it is really cause you do not love them as well.
 
(2 Tim 1:7 KJV) For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
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One of the things I have found also so confounding is how many contradictory preachers can be filled with both truths and lies, falsehood, errors and how come? Why is that?   I was passing through the city of Chicago on the way to Winnipeg and I had decided to stop in a Fundamental  church, that I had read about in Christians magazines, books now too, this Church had regular Sunday services casting out demons out of Christians too. I was dismayed to  hear the preacher at a Sunday morning service also preach that the Russians had an army of tanks on the US border in Canada ready too invade the US, and most people there had next accepted this as the truth. Funny or sad  how so many people seem to be ready to believe gross lies over the truth, reality  from their leaders now even  in churches as well. For certainty I next saw no Russians tanks at the Canadian border when I drove on to Calgary Alberta as well.I HAVE BEEN TO MANY VARIOUS DIFFERENT CHURCHES, SERVICES AND WHEN I HEAR PASTOR TRYING TO TELL ME HOW GREAT THEIR CHURCH SERVICES ARE COMPARED TO OTHER CHURCHES, I CAN MAKE A VALID REAL COMPARISON NOW TOO. THE FACT THIS PREACHER  IS BOASTING ALREADY LIKELY CLEARLY MEANS HE MISSED THE MARK OF A GOOD SERVICE.(Prov 27:2 KJV)  Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips. (1 Cor 14:33 KJV)  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.(James 3:16 KJV)  For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

I have often encountered preachers who claimed they alone were good persons, but the reality was far from it, and visible to many next too.

The WRONGFULLY STILL Unrepentant  bully’s problem is that he or she is one of those bad persons  who only feels truly alive when voicing hostility and contempt for his “enemies.” Without that, he or she starts gasping for air. It’s his nature.. self-destructive” ..  clearly these immoral  Bully, Basher of others, Abusers of others has a disappointed, deflated ego, negative self worth,  most likely related to past unresolved guilt, as a result  of  that   the bully, he or she, tries falsely to   build  their ego up by bashing, hating others, by being an antagonists against  his proclaimed enemies, which too often also  is most people , for  he or she no longer trust anyone, and Abusers this is a common very typical approach, fact in the character build up of Bullies, Bashers, but their approach is futile, the subsequent feeling of self worth dissipates too quickly, are actually replaced by guilt,  and his ego, self worth likely needs to be recharged with new hate.. and is replaced with more and larger hatred of the others.  I have seen this type of wrong behavior not just in bad managers, bad politicians, bad persons, but  in alcoholics, and most often in Albertan rednecks ,but also  in religious   fundamentals evangelicals who promote hated towards Pentecostal Christians as well, and  now as well as the crooked pastor wrongfully  fighting for control over others.

So you boast you do not steal, or commit tax EVASION,  but next you lie, slander, bully, abuse others.. just are as guilty as if you had stole now too.

Public exposure and prosecution of these bad persons here too serves everyone’s best interest.

(Prov 4:14 KJV)  Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men. 15  Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away. 16  For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall. 17  For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. 18  But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. 19  The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

(Prov 5:22 KJV)  His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.

(Prov 6:16 KJV)  These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17  A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18  An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19  A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

SEE ALSO

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/to-the-bad-preacher/
http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/hidden-agendas/

Being overly assertive is as bad as being overly submissive.. it is an unacceptable imbalance

(Zec 11:17 KJV)  Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Immoral Police, RCMP, Mounties have no choice but to comply –

 

“Thomas Braidwood’s inquiry into taser use in B.C. was not supposed to have jurisdictional authority over the RCMP in the province. Thankfully, the highly respected retired judge decided to ignore his original terms of reference.

Mr. Braidwood knew it would be foolish, not to mention a waste of his time and taxpayers’ dollars, to make recommendations that applied only to municipal police forces.

The Mounties police 70 per cent of the province, and RCMP officers in B.C. have the highest taser use of any provincial division in the country. What would be the point of writing a report that could be ignored by those who needed to hear its message most?

In his report, made public Thursday , Mr. Braidwood came down precisely where I thought he would: All police should be able to continue using tasers but under many more restrictions. And that makes sense. At the end of the day, tasering people who are a danger is often a better alternative to shooting them.

But Mr. Braidwood wants a new threshold established for when officers can pull out their conducted-energy weapons.

The RCMP recently instituted new guidelines that state an officer can use a stun gun only when someone is a “threat to officer or public safety” or is exhibiting “assaultive behaviour.” Those parameters are too broad and open to interpretation, according to Mr. Braidwood, whose recommendations stem from the RCMP taser-related death of Robert Dziekanski in October, 2007.

We heard the officers involved in the tasering of Mr. Dziekanski, for instance, defend their actions by saying they thought the unarmed Polish immigrant was a “threat to their personal safety.”

Mr. Braidwood wants new policies in place that insist the taser not be used unless a subject is “causing bodily harm or the officer is satisfied, on reasonable grounds, that the subject’s behaviour will imminently cause bodily harm.”

But the inquiry head goes further: “Even then, an officer should not deploy the weapon unless satisfied, on reasonable grounds, that no lesser force option would be effective, and de-escalation and/or crisis intervention techniques would not be effective.”

Using those principles, it would have been much harder for the officers involved in the Dziekanski incident to justify their actions.

But as Mr. Braidwood notes, the RCMP is a federal force and not subject to B.C. statutes. It is answerable to Ottawa only, even though B.C. residents pay the Mounties salaries here. In other words, the force doesn’t have to listen to a thing Mr. Braidwood has to say if it doesn’t want to.

But Mr. Braidwood, brilliant man that he is, has given the B.C. government a way around the problem. That is, if the RCMP doesn’t voluntarily agree to implement the recommendations.

You see, the RCMP’s contract with the province is up in 2012. Mr. Braidwood has suggested the government insist the Mounties agree to implement all of commission’s recommendations regarding tasers as a condition of renewing its policing agreements with the province.

B.C. Solicitor-General Kash Heed said Thursday he has sent an order to the RCMP that it comply with the recommendations. Certainly a rare display of nerve by this government in its dealings with the force.

To his immense credit, the commissioner was pretty pointed about what he thought of the province’s handling of the taser issue. Which is to say he feels the government abdicated its responsibility to establish province-wide standards for the weapon. And if I had been writing the report I might have added: This provincial government is entirely spineless when it comes to confronting the Mounties with regard to any number of problem cases in which it has been involved in B.C.

I guess we’ll see what happens. RCMP management in B.C. told me they are going to take some time to digest the Braidwood report before commenting on the recommendations and deciding whether they’ll adopt all of them in B.C. and/or across the country. Contrary to some reports, the RCMP has not promised to implement all the recommendations, ‘E’ Division Commander Gary Bass told me Thursday.

But my feeling is the Mounties will because they really have no choice. There is a great swell of public opinion rising against them. And my guess is that public opinion will be solidly behind the many good suggestions made in Mr. Braidwood’s report.

I think the RCMP should just surrender on this one.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/mounties-have-no-choice-but-to-comply/article1229315/

 

A white policeman  falsely  arrested  the renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his home  Massachusetts.  Gov. Deval Patrick, once the top civil rights official in the Clinton administration and now, like Obama, the first black to hold his job, labeled Gates’s false arrest as “every black man’s nightmare.”  This also happens to many white men who oppose police brutality and injustice though, me included now, The governor told reporters: “You ought to be able to raise your voice in your own house without risk of arrest.”  and you can add to that the Natives now as well… EVEN IN Canada
 
Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. had just returned from a trip overseas and, upon arriving at the property with a driver, found his front door jammed and had to force it open. By the time police arrived at the house, he and the driver had managed to get inside the property. According to police, Prof Gates shouted at the officer and accused him of racial bias. Police Officers were called to Prof Gates’s house after a woman reported seeing two black males – the professor and his driver – trying to force entry.  Prof Gates was still falsely arrested outside his home after providing the officer with identification.  
 
As the court records will show I also was arrested and fined in the Calgary Chief of police office cause I had said out loud rightfully you cops are crooked..
  
 In general in the more   liberal society of Canada both the wife and the children tend to have much more freedom, rights, make their own decisions,  over many other countries , Such as central and eastern Europe, Russia, Asia, Africa  and as a result the culture shock after moving to Canada can be  a very real problem for some new immigrant husbands  where the husband sees his family role as being obeyed, and being the sole head of the home.   Thus  it’s not altogether uncommon for some of the new Canadian immigrant  home situations to become  unacceptably violent when the dominate husband feels his authority is being undermined.  Wife beatings as a result are common, and children who witness it are severely traumatized, can develop both bitterness and hatred. And it tends to make  the home matters worse where the husband now is also an alcoholic on top of all that. 
 
In reality too Cops are not the only one who resort to violence when their authority is threatened, so do some bad pastors now too.. 
  
and we all should by now know the RCMP also do lie.. the actual number of unsolved criminal cases would be a lot higher if the police actually investigated all the citizen report they do receive. I have sat in police stations and watched the police lie and refuse complaints brought to them by the other citizens too… never mind those phoned in.   I think only one of over 5 criminal  complaints about the criminal abuse of me or others was ever reviewed with even, and even that one took months of complaining to the police.. and that was the charge of physical assault of me by  a rogue Pentecostal pastor who punched me , in front of a witness, cause I had refused to go to his church.
 
Here is what I know for sure in Canada proper policing, management ,  supervision  human rights commissions are a real fact of life, society, in schools, life,  in churches, governments, commerce, institutions, civil and public services, professional services too,  and elsewhere, even on the net,  for you will always have those 30 percent at least of the persons who will try to cheat, lie  , steal, bend the rules, falsely believe they are above the laws, Self  regulation alone is too often pretentious, farcical, often not applied as well. That applies especially to the professionals, civil and public services, police, municipalities, politicians now as well..
 
Sergeant Mike Rutigliano with the Ontario Provincial Police “has been charged with discreditable conduct under Ontario’s Police Services Act for allegedly meeting with members of the Rizzuto crime family, led by the currently imprisoned Vito Rizzuto, in Montreal in 2002” as reported by Anthony Reinhart for The Globe and Mail:  Yesterday morning, Sgt. Rutigliano made a brief first appearance at OPP headquarters in Orillia. According to the notice of hearing issued before the proceeding, the OPP alleges Sgt. Rutigliano “arranged and attended a meeting in Montreal in 2002 with members and associates of the Rizzuto Traditional Organized Crime Group, regarding a jewellery store in Woodbridge, Ont.” The OPP has further accused the officer of giving “false and misleading” answers when he was questioned, in February of 2004, about his “relationship with Vito Rizzuto.” The notice of hearing quotes Sgt. Rutigliano as having said, “I do not know the man, I have never met the man, I have never spoken to the man, I have never communicated with the man either in writing or electronically, nor have I ever had any association with him directly, or indirectly.” The disciplinary hearing will resume on Sept. 28 in Orillia.  In 2004, Rutigliano was found guilty under the PSA of discreditable conduct for making a threat to a former business associate.  The OPP officer is also charged with an alleged $15 million fraud targeting Bombardier Inc. 

    

 

A veteran OPP officer embroiled in a justice corruption scandal now also had  helped a fraudster, wanted on a Canada-wide warrant, establish a new identify with bogus identification, including a Lithuanian passport, according to court documents. Rutigliano “offered to obtain new identification for Mavroudis,” who at the time had more than 70 criminal convictions on his record. the suspended sergeant appeared at a police disciplinary hearing in Orillia.  Rutigliano has been charged with discreditable conduct under the Police Services Act for allegedly lying about a meeting with Montreal mobster Vito Rizzuto and associates. Earlier this year, Rutigliano was released on bail after he was charged with corruption and obstruction of justice offences in connection with three separate investigations. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/681137
 
It is not the rapists, drunk drivers that mostly  fill the courts calendars, docks rather it is mostly the revenue generating traffic tickets..

 

You cannot judge me

god
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1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
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Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
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You cannot judge me! Judge not.. I Like those hypocrite who never read the Bible and quote falsely a verse out of the Bible like do not judge others, but they still do judge me when they quoted the verse too.. but yet hypocritically you dare to judge me yourself.. why is that? you personally do not practice the Bible? and clearly still do not practice what you preach to me, others?
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The blind accuser of me, clearly rather the ignorant fool cannot see his own, always still justifiable now too according to him, sin , wrong doing is now still so ready to take on other people sins, but this act of his still will not make his own wrong doings go away ehhh.. He clearly even shows to many his own ignorance in the Bible and his lack of practise in reality, for the Bible does not now forbid judging all others, otherwise why would the fool himself try to do it?
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Was firstly your own exemplary meekness, real love evident or only STILL your false condemnation now of me, and any others? (Prov 27:5 KJV) Open rebuke is better than secret love.
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The Bible forbids only the unrighteous judgment, had you really read it now you would have known that too… do you pick the parts of the Bible you like only or do you apply all the parts of the Bible to yourself firstly such as
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Apostle Paul said he was, is the chief of sinners himself.. “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief .“—I Tim. 1:15 the same Apostle Paul who now also judged and rebuked apostle Peter for his sin as well .The Record of the Apostle Paul Rebuking Peter Galatians 2:11-21 , Apostle Paul Rebuking Peter, Because Peter Was Wrongly Treating the Gentile Believers as Second-class Citizens (Gal 2:11 KJV) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. so you also not longer respect apostle Peter as well because he continually also now sinned while following the Lord Jesus? (Mark 14:72 KJV) And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shall deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
Webster’s defines the act of judging as “to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises.” The problem arises because judging can be subjective. In other words, your judgments are based firstly on your own perceptions, motives, and understandings. This is why two people can judge the exact same situation and come up with different determinations. Did you with Katherine Khulman, examine her whole life, what she lived, preached, taught or just by one bad past act of her you condemned her falsely? Since the judgments of man are therefore rooted in the “opinions” of man or of a women, no man’s judgments can be taken as absolute or complete truth. What did God tell you now about her himself? Jesus was able to hear God’s words to pronounce God’s judgments. “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” (John 7:24). We must have our will in full subjection to God’s which enables us to know God’s own words on every subject and allows us to be sent by God to others with His message. Or did you now even bother to pray to him about her before you ran away with your condemnations? The Word of God says that God enables man to judge righteously, commands man to judge righteously too, and is pleased with those who seek to judge righteously . The fact that the desire to judge righteously is highly esteemed by God. King Solomon asks, “Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?” We are also told not to judge according to appearances or by the flesh (John 7:24; John 8:15; James 2:1-4).
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 This means that sound judgment cannot be based on what we see, hear, or think. Since God’s thoughts and ways are are higher than ours, He is not bound by our perceptions, opinions, or prejudices. This again is a confirmation that God alone is The Judge. Our judgments must therefore be based in His direct words to us in order for them to be true. So how is your real, direct communication now with God, does he talk and commune with you in all things?
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The Bible forbids only the unrighteous judgment,
I Corinthians 11:31-32 that we judge ourselves first so that we will not be judged
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(II Chronicles 19:6) “…Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.”
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A  false “accuser of the brethren.” is evident by ones clear absence of real love for them too.
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(Prov 31:8 KJV) Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction. 9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
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(1 Cor 5:12 KJV) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
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(1 Cor 6:2 KJV) Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
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1 Cor 6:5 KJV) I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
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(1 Cor 10:15 KJV) I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.
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(1 Cor 14:29 KJV) Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
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(1 Cor 14:40 KJV) Let all things be done decently and in order. and “Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus” (Colossians 3:17).
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Galatians 6 1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
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It is always evident that the mostly still liars, people claiming to be good persons, who try to enforce the one way rules on others, those even they do not practice, are still just liars and hypocrites.. and of course they do not want you to judge them, to know and expose this to any others..
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But a person is known by the company they keep.. One having  bad company leads to one going to hell too.. tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are now.. a person is also know by what he does, and the values he or she have.. some people have bad values, some people falsely go extreme with good values..
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Now real Biblical repentance evident and it includes s admitting one sins to God, stopping and consciously turning away from them, turning back toward God,  and personally accepting Jesus Christ finished work, forgiveness for them. True repentance is confession, contrition,   change; replacement and it involves the whole person, Our Body, Soul, Spirit. It is also  a personal, ongoing event. It is visible to all now too..
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Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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 (Rev 18:4 KJV)  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (Rev 18:5 KJV)  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.  
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Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
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Mat 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
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(1 John 2:15 KJV)  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.  16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17    And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
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2 Cor 6:14  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15  And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17  Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18  And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 2 Cor 7:1  Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 
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Eph 5:11  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. “
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But who am I to say? I’m not his judge”???
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If you yourself now cannot judge what people are like so how can you see the devil then too?
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You yourself are not Holy Spirit filled even then.. one needs to deal with that firstly.. Of course the devil does not want you to have the gift of discernments  of Spirits.. if the devil cannot get at you personally he will next come to you directly in the form of a bother, sister even, a person.. (2 Cor 2:11 KJV)  Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
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There is no such thing as living in a world in which individuals are not being judged by others for the actions that they take or what they say. Making a statement such as, “you cannot judge me”, is ludicrous.  A Christian person still can judge another Christian’s individual’s behavior or actions, writings, speech but not the intent of any individual’s heart. Only God can do that.. But God alone will judge the non Christians, not us, and we cannot judge what other people do eat as being right or wrong.
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Had you read your Bible seriously you would have known all this this 
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(1 Cor 4:21 KJV) What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?
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Prov 27:5  Open rebuke is better than secret love.
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Rev 3:19  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
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Hey I point something out to a net poster, or a church goer, and he goes haywire.. such as when I honestly, lovingly say as “how can you go to a Christian Church and really, obviously still do not know God, Jesus, the Holy spirit personally”? now have you also experienced that? I have too often for my liking the last 4 decades even.. I am nice to the good persons and the bad person gets what he deserves..
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When we do not like to be rebuked. Revenge and anger tends to amplify our worst  tendencies but we all do need a  stark reminder that all persons now are still  responsible, can be and will be accountable  for what they do, say, in churches, in the open, online or  otherwise. Pastors, elders, individuals included.
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I too do not spoil or baby him, like his mother or someone else likely did .. ehh..  and next he gets really upset, he cannot accept any rebuke, critics, advice.. he gets easily angry, revengeful persons and so on and claims he is a real born again Christian but resorts to a hot temper, to slanders, lies, distortions, fighting, threats, blackmail..  .. so where are, were  their own  fruit of the Holy Spirit?  
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Hey I admit it I dislike those evident  show off, competitive posters, preachers  rather  those still novices, who want to ASAP preach to everyone else, clearly still  not led by the holy spirit, because we the older ones can tell how little they still really do know.. .. it seems they do need their diapers still changed.. “crap”… by the way they do also  often next get really upset and tell me that a man of God does not speak that way to anyone.. they are ignorant of how all the Prophets spoke in the Old Testament Bible.. they also did not use sweet sounding words, pleasant phrases.. God does not spoil us too.. he may be a good of love but he is never ever  dumb, unwise.. I am nice to the good persons and the bad person gets what he deserves..
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(Mat 11:16 KJV)  But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
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Like all cults, Mormons do tend to get really upset when you question their own beliefs,

 
 Most Mormons think they are Christians. They use Christian words. They say they believe in Jesus and the Bible. They say they pray to God through Jesus. And they try to live good lives. But does God now speak to them even?  for they really are not Christians. Latter Rain (Christian Church) Movement – The real latter day saints.. https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/latter-rain/   http://www.whatismormonism.com/
 
The truth is that Mormons are not Christians. They use Christian words but the words have non-Christian definitions. They believe in a Jesus, but the Jesus they believe in is not the Jesus of the Bible.   The Jesus of Mormonism differs from the Jesus of the Bible .The Jesus of the Mormonism Bible  is not the real Jesus of the real Bible.  See http://mccainvrsobama.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/mormonism-vs-biblical-teachings-about-jesus/
 
liars.abusers
 
 Like all cults, Mormons do tend to  get really upset when you question their own beliefs, and MORMONS WON’T TELL YOU initially
– that they believe your Church is wrong, that your Christian creeds are abomination to God, and that all of your pastors or Priest are a hireling of Satan.
–  that there is salvation only in their church  and that all others are wrong.
– that those who have been through their temples are wearing secret underwear to protect themselves from “evil”. This “evil” includes all non- Mormons like you.
–  about their secret temple rites at all. If they did, you for sure would spot them as non-Christians immediately.
–  that they think “familiar spirits” are good, and that their Book of Mormon has a “familiar spirit”. The Bible, Leviticus 19;31 says familiar spirits defile one, and are to be avoided at all costs.
– that women receive salvation only through their Mormon husbands, and must remain pregnant for all eternity. Men and women are not equal in God.
–  that they intend to be gods themselves some day, and are helping to earn their exaltation to godhood by talking to you.
–  that they intend to have many wives in heaven, carrying on multiple sex relations throughout eternity, until they have enough children to populate their own earth, so they can be “Heavenly Father” over their own planet!
–  that you were once a spirit-child of their heavenly father, and one of his numerous wives before you were born on earth.
–  that the Virgin Mary really wasn’t a virgin at all but had sex relations with their heavenly father to produce the Mormon version of Jesus Christ
–  that they believe the lie that Jesus had at least three wives and children while he was on this earth.
–  that the “heavenly father” they ask you to pray to with them, is really an exalted man that lives on a planet near the star base Kolob, and is not the Heavenly Father of the Bible at all. More Mormon lies.
–  that Jesus was really Lucifer’s brother in the spirit world, and it was only due to a “heavenly council” vote that Jesus became our redeemer instead of Satan!!
–  that there are over one hundred divisions in Mormonism. They conveniently “forget” this even while criticizing the many denominations within the body of Christ
–  that all their so- called scriptures such as the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and even their official “Mormon Doctrine” statements do often contradict each other on MAJOR doctrinal points. They claom the  King James Bible is likewise contradicted.
–  that the reason the Book of Mormon has no maps is because there is not one scrap of archaeological evidence to support it!
–  that the state of Utah, which is predominately Mormon, has a higher than the national average of wife-beating, child abuse, and teenage suicide.
 – that their prophet Joseph Smith was heavily involved in the occult when he founded Mormonism.
 – that that they encourage visitations from dead relatives from the “spirit world”, a practice forbidden in the Bible. (Deuteronomy 18:10- 12.)
– that there are many accounts of Joseph Smith’s first vision besides he one they present to you, and all are different
– that their secret temple oaths are based on the Scottish Rite Masons.
– that for years they considered the Negro race inferior, and even one drop of Negro blood prevented a person from entering their temple.
– that they expect Christ to return to their temple in Missouri, but they haven’t built the temple He’s supposed to return to, because they don’t own the property. (It is owned by the “Temple Lot Mormons” who have plans  of their own forr it’s use, and won’t let the Salt Lake City group buy it).
– that they consider your Bible to be untrustworthy and full of errors.
– that Jesus’ death on the cross only partially saves the believer.
– that now  according to Anton Lavey’s Satanic Bible, the demon god of the living dead is called “Mormo”. Is it just a coincidence that the Mormons are so concerned with the dead?
– that on their Salt Lake City Temple they prominently display an upside-down star which is a Satanic symbol known as the Goat’s head.. Why?
– that they believe the Archangel Michael came down to earth with several of his celestial wives, and became Adam in the garden of Eden.
– that that they believe the angel Gabriel came down to earth and became Noah in the days of the flood.
– that their Prophet Joseph Smith prophesied falsely many times. For example, he foretold the second coming of Christ for 1891. The Bible teaches that one false prophecy puts a prophet under death sentence. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
– that their Prophet Joseph Smith did not die as a martyr as they claim, but was killed during a gun battle with an angry mob  in which he himself killed two men and wounded a third. The nob was upset he had abused their wives and money too. Joseph Smith was no saint at all.
– about the Mountain Meadows Massacre in which they brutally murdered an innocent wagon train of settlers, of over one hundred men, women, and most of the children, traveling through Utah.
– that Joseph Smith taught that there were inhabitants on the moon, and Brigham Young taught there were inhabitants on the sun as well!
 
WHY WON’T MORMONS TELL YOU THESE THINGS?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Mormons, are well aware that if these facts were known to the converts prior to their baptism, they would have very few converts! The Missionaries are well trained to keep most of these facts from their potential converts. Tragically, many decieved, seduced  Mormons may not even be fully aware of thefull  doctrines and history of their own church. Every statement on this page  is true. All Mormons are encouraged to check out their own publications for documentation of the above. After all, if the Mormon Church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) has the truth, it can stand any amount of investigation.  

Documentation for many of these statements can be found at www.mrm.org   http://www.mmoutreach.org/mormon/articles/facts_mormon_wont_tell.htm   
 

Facts Mormons Won’t Tell You When They Call At Your Door Otherwise you likely would not even bother to talk to them

Mormonism

Still many persons today are under the false impression that Mormonism is merely another Christian denomination, when in actuality, Mormon beliefs are not only unbiblical, but anti-Christian. Below are the highlights of what Mormons believe concerning their source of authority, the Trinity, God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, sin, salvation, and heaven and hell:

1. Source of Authority. Mormonism teaches that the canon of Scripture was not closed when the Bible was completed. They have three sources in addition to the Bible, all of which they believe contain God’s revelations — the Book of Mormon 2 (changed in more than 4,000 places since 1830), Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. However, Mormons follow the teachings of these three books even when they contradict the Bible. For example, Mormonism teaches that the Bible is the Word of God “as far as it is translated correctly.” Then whenever a Mormon belief contradicts Scripture, the Mormons say that particular part of Scripture is translated incorrectly, and that the correct translation is in one of the Mormon scriptures (The Maze of Mormonism, p. 131). Thereby, the Bible is rejected as the infallible Word of God. [e.g. “The Bible is considered usable, but suspect due to its many errors and missing parts” (Articles of Faith No. 8, Ensign, January 1989, pp. 25, 27).

2. Trinity. Mormonism teaches polytheism (versus monotheism taught in the Bible), believing that the universe is inhabited by many gods who produce spirit children. Joseph Smith declared, “I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370). Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie spoke about the Godhead in this way, “Plurality of Gods: Three separate personages: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God, it is evident, from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods” (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577).

3. God.  In Mormon theology, the god of our planet is believed to have once been a man on another planet, who through self-effort and the help of his own father-god, was appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth, and now has a physical, resurrected, glorified body. Mormonism teaches that through the atonement of Christ and by their good deeds and “holy” living, men can one day become gods, and with their multiplicity of “goddess wives,” populate their own planets. (This is what the celestial marriage and the Mormon temple vows are all about.) Mormon theology, therefore, humanizes God and deifies man.3

 
4. Christ. Mormonism acknowledges the divinity of Christ, but as noted above, Mormon doctrine on what constitutes divinity falls seriously short of the Biblical standard. Mormonism teaches that Jesus, Lucifer, and all the demons, as well as all mankind, are actually all spirit brothers and sisters, born in the spirit world as spirit babies to our man-god Heavenly Father and his goddess wives. Mormon leaders have consistently taught that God the Father (“Adam-god”) had sexual relations on earth with Mary (his own spirit daughter), to produce the physical body of Jesus. Early Mormon apostles also asserted that Christ was a polygamist, and that His wives included Mary and Martha (the sisters of Lazarus) and Mary Magdalene.4

5. Holy Spirit. In Mormonism, a distinction is drawn between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. As LDS Apostle Marion G. Romney stated: “The Holy Ghost is a person, a spirit, the third member of the Godhead” (Ensign, May 1977, pp. 43-44). The sixth LDS prophet, Joseph F. Smith, explains that the Holy Spirit is not a person but rather an impersonal force: “You may call it the Spirit of God, you may call it the influence of God’s intelligence, you may call it the substance of his power; no matter what it is called, it is the spirit of intelligence that permeates the universe” (Mormon Doctrine, McConkie, pp. 752-753).
 
6. Sin. In Mormon theology, it is not quite clear how the first humans, Adam and Eve, came to live on this earth and received bodies, but somehow they did and began the process of human procreation, whereby bodies are produced for their spirit children. But at the very beginning of the process of human generation, sin entered necessarily. The earthly bodies of Adam and Eve were intended to be immortal tabernacles for their spirits, “but it was necessary for them to possess through mortality and be redeemed through the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ that the fullness of life might come.” Therefore, they disobeyed God’s commands. Since the fall of man was necessary, it became necessary for men to disobey God in order to do His will. Adam’s fall, thereby, was a fall “upward.”5
Concerning the transmission of sin to Adam’s posterity, Mormons take a negative position — they believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression. Having rejected the doctrine of the imputation of the guilt of sin, Latter-Day Saints likewise repudiate the transmission of inherent corruption or original sin.
 
7. Salvation. Mormon theology teaches that the atonement of Christ was essential to our salvation and eternal life with God, but that it is not sufficient. Christ’s shed blood on the cross provides for universal resurrection of all people, but does not pay for personal sins; according to Mormonism, only Christ’s blood shed in the Garden of Gethsemane atones for personal sin. Besides faith in Christ, complete and permanent repentance of all sin as well as many good works are required. 6 Mormonism also teaches that one must be baptized in water to be saved (baptismal regeneration), and that salvation will also be available in the next world for those “missing-out” in this one. Therefore, Mormons avidly pursue genealogy and practice baptism for the dead.7

8. Heaven and Hell. Mormonism teaches that there are three degrees of glory: Celestial (for good Mormons able to cease sinning in this lifetime — see endnote #6 below), Terrestrial (for good people who do not comply with all the teachings of Mormonism), and Telestial (for those who have lived unclean earthly lives). (See also Mormon Doctrines, p. 348.) Mormonism teaches that there is a hell, but only for the “sons of perdition,” a very small number of souls that cannot be redeemed. According to Mormonism, then, the vast majority of mankind will be “saved,” though it should be obvious that no one will make it to the Celestial Kingdom. [Blacks used to be totally out of the equation: “Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence” (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21); “The Negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. But that is nothing compared with that greater handicap. He is not permitted to receive the priesthood and the ordinances of the temple, necessary to prepare men and women to enter into and enjoy a fullness of glory in the Celestial Kingdom” (Elder George E. Richards). In 1978, however, the Mormon Church announced that God had lifted his curse from the African race.]
 
9. Temple Rituals. A typical temple ceremony would take place as follows: “The ritual began in a small cubicle where we had to strip completely. We then put on ‘the shield,’ a poncho with a hole for the head, but open on the sides (similar to a hospital gown). We went through a series of ‘washings and anointings,’ as various parts of our bodies were touched by elderly temple workers who mumbled appropriate incantations over them. Our Mormon underwear, ‘the garments,’ are said to have powers to protect us from ‘the evil one.’ It had occult markings, which were so ‘sacred’ that we were instructed to burn them when the garments wore out. The endowment ceremony mocked all doctrines held to by Biblical Christianity, and Christian pastors were portrayed as servants of Satan. We had to swear many blood oaths, promising we would forfeit our lives if we weren’t faithful, or if we revealed any of the secrets revealed to us in the temple ceremonies. We were made to pretend by grotesque gestures to cut our throats, chests, and abdomens, indicating how we would lose our lives. We were never told who would kill us! The inference was, and history testifies to, that it would be the Mormon priesthood.” (Testimony of a former Mormon.) [Note: The blood oaths and portrayal of Christian pastors were removed in April of 1990, despite the fact that the ordinance was purported to have been given originally by a revelation and was never to be changed.] http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/mormon.htm
 
The Book of Mormon  archaeologically, geographically and historically it always fails every test–The tragedy of it all is that when Mormons finally come to the truth that there is nothing acceptable to Mormonism, they often next wrongfully decide that all religion is a fraud. For many it is normal, hard to give up their Mormon culture and past friends now as a result. and especially a religion that wrongfully had helped them to feel better over  all the others, and had allowed them to earn their way to heaven, all sadly inflating their false pride, self ego.

The  Mormons do also attempt falsely still to obtin heavenly salvationby living  according to the Dispensation of their Laws. This apporach practice is contrary to the true Word of God , the New Testament, the only valid real new covenant, the gospel of Grace. The Apostle Paul was very critical of this bad practice of mixing any law and grace.

2 Corinthians 3:11-18 For if what is passing away [was] glorious, what remains [is] much more glorious. 12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech– 13 unlike Moses, [who] put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [veil] is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The Mormon Church teaches ALL other Churches are WRONG; ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION in the sight of God; and ALL their teachers are CORRUPT. Rather they need to first look now at themselves and honestly too.. Cause the rest of the real Christians do tend to know still that they the Mormons are phony.. unreal.

 

 Whatever your situation, it is still absolutely critical you carefully follow Jesus’ instructions to make sure you are a real Christian:

1. All persons are sinners before God, as measured against GOD’S holiness.  See Book of Romans chapters 1-9.

2. Jesus Christ is God’s only Savior of the world – Acts 4:12.

3. You must personally come to, choose, and receive Jesus Christ as your own Savior.  Read the Gospel Book of John.

4. Dying without Jesus Christ as your very own personal Savior, means eternal punishment in hell. So now first Carefully study the New Testament of the Bible. John is good place to start.

 Second Corinthians 5 :17 states, “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

John 6:28 tells us “Then said Christ’s disciples unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.”

Jesus is speaking in Luke 9:23, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me”.

(2 Cor 1:9 KJV)  But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

TRUE CHRISTIANS DO NOT TRUST, RELY ON WHAT OTHER MEN OR ANGELS EVEN SAY SAY, TEACH, BUT THEY RATHER TRUST ON GOD -JESUS-THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD AND GUDE THEM IN ALL TRUTH, IN REAL LIFE TOO.

 do see also http://www.whatismormonism.com/

Favorite Christian based reading, resources

 
I have covered a lot of topics, but here is the links for what you the readers have now this Summer read the most on my sites..
The Bible also teaches us to avoid two extremes in the world of religious experience: Liberalism and Legalism.
The Christian Missionary & Alliance Church
Great Links Christian Literature
Tithe
Alcoholism, Abuse, Family
Bad Pastors, Bad others
Pentecostalism
Israel, Jews, Messianic Jews
Meditations, Devotional
My other favorites..
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet. Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
PSALM 91

The secret place is not a cave, physical fortress, or city of refuge somewhere that the Lord has set apart for us as some caring ruler may dedicate for that purpose. It is not even His palace but the secret place is none other than His Own Presence. He God, Jesus Christ, Himself is my refuge and fortress!

Bad Pastors, bad deacons, bad elders = bad church

 

 
>>“Do you know of any churches where the elders willingly present themselves before the church on a regular basis”
 
yes I have met good functioning elders and bad ones as well..
 
As to “in love submit one to another”…
 
According to my reading of the scriptures the term Pastor is always plural, not singular,  meaning there are too be many pastors in any local church, and pastors also equally, mutally  do have to submit to the gifted elders, who are the apostles- missionaries and prophets- all appointed by  God as his spokesman – the NT Greek verb is continually present- meaning God continues to give these men ( or women – such as Junia note worthy amongst the apostles) unto the church now as well , but  today most evangelical pastors tend to deny the existance of these God ordained, given offices even today,  even firstly because they themselves are rebels, those  who wrongfully refuse to submit to other’s for always submission is mutal- meaning reciprocal.. and also do note this it is still voluntarily, unenforceable.. Dictatorial pastors tend to be ungoldy persons still.
 
(Gal 5:19 KJV)  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24  And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
 
(Deu 31:27 KJV)  For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?
 
I heard firsthand one teenager saying to another teenager  , “I cannot trust you, you lie to me all the time” and this next had made me reflect upon the reality that the average person lies 3 times in every ten minutes of conversation, and it also reminded me with my past years of undeniable dealing with Bell related to my internet download problems, they too had  lied to me all the time, by not admitting the truth first that there was a problem, nor next honestly admitting the cause of the problem. It seems that spin doctoring, misleading, lying to others is a very major part of not just the lawyers, used car salesmen, but a regular part of the sales, advertising, corporate way of doing business with consumers these days Canada wide now as well.   http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/why-many-businesses-fail/
 
It seems also that lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, pornography, alcoholism, slander, gossiping, etc.,  is something that  too many pastors also cannot give up on these  days too. https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/a-hireling-in-an-evangelical-church/
 
Now it was interesting I had met this really crooked head elder and head deacon in a Baptist church, not just in the Pentecostal churches, where there too their elders and deacons, tend to be pretentious ones   ( for when was the last time you saw an elder giving food, money to the poor persons in the church as was done in the book of Acts?) .. even such as the one who was an elder and owned a bar that served alcohol of all things, and who borrowed money from others in the church for his business and then refused to pay it back too, he also next ran to be a local politicans but lost now.. .. and told me if I come to his church he would call the police against me, but  the same bad church I next rather had  helped to close down permanently , for I  had the federal government remove their tax exempt license  after I had exposed in writing to  news editors, elected officials too  their much too many unacceptable abuses, money thefts, slanders, etc.,
  
Now  a Baptist pastor had cheated, for he had short circuited the elders, deacons church selection process, he had the nominating committee first, before any  selection submit the names to him for his prior approval of their supposedly spiritual qualifications and he thus by thes emans had elected his bad friends.. one Sunday evening as I was leaving the church and shaking hands with the pastor, he unexpectedly said to me ” this is my church and if you do not like it get out”.. shocked and surprised I said to the pastor if I have offended you let me meet you now this week Tuesday night and you can bring any two witnesses you want as well and we can discuss the matter. So he agreed and I knew that he would bring the head elder and the head deacons.. as I walked into the pastor’s office on Tuesday day night, the founding church pastor said immediately to me wipe the smirk of your face.. so I immediately said.. hey pastor let us also now make this quick, “Did you or did you not say to me this is my church and if you do not like it get out?” And  you should have seen the shock on the deacon and elder’s faces. The pastor seeing this too next said you cannot hear any charges from this man for I am a senior and if you listen to him I will resign. I said “Pastor if you want to resign, do so, but cut of the emotional black main and answer the question”.. he resigned instead, and became a life insurance salesman rather next..
 
But now I still had a problem with the crooked head elder of South Calgary Community Church   so I tried to first talk to him about his immoral acts and lack of spirituality, he admitted to me that he had no time to read the Bible even.. but it was useless to talk to him for he laughed me off. So next the elder came to see me and said “you know when you told everyone about my lack of spirituality it did not bother me, it was your word against mine, but when you next had put it in writing to all to see it hurt”.. and I said back to him.. “is that what it takes to cause you to rightfully repent?” seems people tend to believe the truth only if it is in wring these days.. and ever since that day I have also next been posting unacceptable, unrepented of sins of many, many a bad  pastors and elder on the  net but  few of them next repented, less than 5 percent next, some of them even moved rather out of town instead.. and many were rightfully fired next. The next few churches I went to now were not any better..
   
(Gal 6:1 KJV)  Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
 
(Gal 6:2 KJV)  Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
 
(Gal 6:3 KJV)  For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
 
(Gal 6:4 KJV)  But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
 
(Gal 6:5 KJV)  For every man shall bear his own burden.
 
(Gal 6:7 KJV)  Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
 
(Gal 6:8 KJV)  For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
 
(Gal 6:9 KJV)  And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
 
(Gal 6:10 KJV)  As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
 
(Lev 19:17 KJV)  Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
 
(Psa 104:7 KJV)  At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
 
(Prov 9:8 KJV)  Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
 
(Prov 13:1 KJV)  A wise son heareth his father’s instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.
 
(Prov 24:25 KJV)  But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.
 
(Prov 27:5 KJV)  Open rebuke is better than secret love.
 
(Eccl 7:5 KJV)  It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.
 
(Isa 66:15 KJV)  For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
 
(Jer 15:15 KJV)  O LORD, thou knowest: remember me, and visit me, and revenge me of my persecutors; take me not away in thy longsuffering: know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke.
 
(Luke 17:3 KJV)  Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
 
(Phil 2:15 KJV)  That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
 
(1 Tim 5:1 KJV)  Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
 
(1 Tim 5:20 KJV)  Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
 
(2 Tim 4:2 KJV)  Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
 
(Titus 1:13 KJV)  This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
 
(Titus 2:15 KJV)  These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
 
(Rev 3:19 KJV)  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
 
Now can a bad pastor rightfully  fire a good or bad deacon, meaning often a non functioningg , pretentious elder?
 
Bad people try to do many things.. if others let them do it as well..
 
Bad pastors, bad elders continue to exist  cause likely the congregation is bad too.  (Jer 5:31 KJV)  The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
 
I have yet to see a Bible verse saying the local church is solely to be run by one man, one pastor too.. for that matter! and not the elders of that Church..
 
 
 
We all do even  need to seriously know, differentiate between how God now deals with the wicked, those persons deliberately disobedient to him, he God does not go along with them for sure .. God’s grace of forgiveness even does not extend to everyone..
 
and next the righteous those people who put their trust in him.. God is merciful, kind to them, but not all professing Christians now are righteous for sure as well.
 
  
Here also  is what I know for sure in Canada proper policing, management ,  supervision  human rights commissions are a real fact of life, society, in schools, life,  in churches, governments, commerce, institutions, civil and public services, professional services too,  and elsewhere, even on the net,  for you will always have those 30 percent at least of the persons who will try to cheat, lie  , steal, bend the rules, falsely believe they are above the laws, Self  regulation alone is too often pretentious, farcical, often not applied as well. That applies especially to the professionals, civil and public services, police, municipalities, politicians now as well..
 
I was really, really surprised as to how many persons lie, are being lied to in life, in churches..
 

(Josh 22:22 KJV)  The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,)

(1 Sam 15:23 KJV)  For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

(Prov 17:11 KJV)  An evil man seeketh only rebellion: therefore a cruel messenger shall be sent against him.

(Jer 28:16 KJV)  Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the LORD.

(Jer 29:32 KJV)  Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed: he shall not have a man to dwell among this people; neither shall he behold the good that I will do for my people, saith the LORD; because he hath taught rebellion against the LORD.

 (Jer 6:27 KJV)  I have set thee for a tower and a fortress among my people, that thou mayest know and try their way. 28  They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters. 29  The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away. 30  Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.