Murder by Israel today

  Did, or does God approve of any of this?

Did Israeli soldiers murder unarmed civilians again?  Remember also they did the same thing in Lebanon.. Mar 20, 2009 04:30 AM 

‘The most moral army in the world’ killed civilians without cause’ JERUSALEM–Israeli soldiers killed unarmed Palestinian civilians without provocation or warning and vandalized their property during this country’s January offensive in Gaza, say some of the soldiers who fought there. In one incident, Israeli soldiers apparently herded a Palestinian family into a single room of their house and left them there, while the troops took positions upstairs and also set up a sniper’s post on the roof. Several days later, soldiers instructed the family to leave the house, directing them to depart the area by heading to the right. They neglected to inform the sharpshooter on the roof what they were doing. One mother and her two children mistakenly turned to the left and were promptly shot dead by the rooftop sniper. “He shot them straight away,” the squad leader said during the college discussion. “I don’t think he felt too bad about it, because, after all, as far as he was concerned, he did his job according to the orders he was given.” The same squad leader reported a general attitude of contempt for Palestinian civilians, a mindset that enabled Israeli soldiers to engage in callous or sometimes lethal behaviour. “I don’t know how to describe it,” he said. “The lives of Palestinians, let’s say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers.  “So, as far as they are concerned, they can justify it that way.”  In another incident, a company commander is said to have ordered his troops to shoot and kill an elderly woman walking past them at a distance of about 100 metres.  You do not get the impression from the officers that there is any logic to it – to write `Death to the Arabs’ on the walls, to take family pictures and spit on them, just because you can,” said a squad leader who opposed the order.  Oher soldiers described widespread abuses of property. “We would throw everything out the windows to make room and order,” said one soldier.  Everything in the house was tossed out the windows – refrigerators, plates, furniture. The order was to throw all of the house’s contents outside.” Human rights groups have harshly criticized the Israeli military for its conduct of the war in Gaza – including the use of white phosphorus, a chemical harmful to humans – but the reports published here yesterday were the first documented accounts by Israeli soldiers themselves about widespread abuses. According to the most recent Palestinian figures, 1,417 Gazans died during the three-week conflict, more than 920 of them civilians.  At least one Israeli organization, the International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, puts the civilian death toll much lower. The college course at which the soldiers related their experiences was taught by Danny Zamir, who said he was “shocked” by what he heard and decided to publish a transcript of the discussion in a newsletter for course graduates.  http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/605363

  JERUSALEM (AP) — An increasingly disturbing picture of the Israeli army’s conduct in the Gaza war emerged Friday, as new witness accounts from Israeli troops described wanton vandalism to Palestinian homes, humiliation of civilians and loose rules of engagement that resulted in unnecessary civilian deaths. They also have echoed Palestinian allegations that Israel’s assault did not distinguish between civilians and combatants, at a time when some international human rights groups contend Israel violated the laws of war. Israel launched the offensive on Dec. 27 in what it said was an effort to end years of Palestinian rocket attacks from Gaza. The Palestinian Center for Human Rights, which conducted a survey of casualties, says a total of 1,417 people were killed, including 926 civilians during the 22-day offensive. “Shoot and don’t worry about the consequences,” was the message from the top commanders, he said. Speaking of a lieutenant colonel who briefed the troops, Mr. Marmor said, “His whole demeanor was extremely gung ho. This is very, very different from my usual experience. I have been doing reserve duty for 12 years, and it was always an issue how to avoid causing civilian injuries. He said in this operation we are not taking any chances. Morality aside, we have to do our job. We will cry about it later.  Israeli ethicists say they are troubled by what they have heard. “Unfortunately, I think that selective use of killing civilians has been very much on the agenda for fighting terror,” said Yaron Ezrahi, a political scientist at Hebrew University who has been lecturing at defense colleges. “The army believes that a weak spot of Israeli deterrence is its strong commitment not to kill civilians, and there has grown the sense that it might have to temporarily overcome that weakness in order to restore deterrence.”  ” http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ioi_0jtO9RjMwPNRoXNCndRPRq3gD97204S80
   
a squad commander was quoted as saying: “What’s great about Gaza — you see a person on a path, he doesn’t have to be armed, you can simply shoot him. In our case it was an old woman on whom I did not see any weapon when I looked. The order was to take down the person, this woman, the minute you see her. There are always warnings, there is always the saying, ‘Maybe he’s a terrorist.’ What I felt was, there was a lot of thirst for blood.” http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/20/africa/21gaza.php
 
 One soldier asserted that extremist rabbis had told troops they were fighting a holy war.The soldier was quoted as saying that the rabbis had “brought in a lot of booklets and articles,” adding, “their message was very clear: We are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle. God brought us back to this land, and now we need to fight to expel the non-Jews who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/world/middleeast/21gaza.html?ref=world
 
The ends do not justify the means.. and does the Canadian PM Stephen Harper and the Conservatives now also GIVE approval of all of this too? 
 
It is very clear that the Darby Plymouth Brethren, Dispensationalist  Christians to compensate for their failure to try to convert Jewish persons have come up with false reasons for not doing so as well
 
  
 
There actually is no Biblical basis, promises, prophecy for Israel reclaiming this land in the whole New Testament.. just more Old Testament Jewish spins.. http://mccainvrsobama.wordpress.com/2008/12/12/the-restoration-of/

 

          
…the Harper government has moved to align Canada with Israel and its staunchest supporters. Canada is now the most “Israel, right or wrong” government in the world, except for the Israeli government itself. Even Barack Obama’s new administration, itself obviously pro-Israel, has uttered a few mild criticisms about settlements in East Jerusalem and the banning of certain trade with Gaza. But not the Harper government. Mum’s been the word.But do Canadians, while of course being supportive of Israel’s existence and security, really want their country to be the most completely aligned with Israel, especially now that it is to be led by a very right-wing coalition that doesn’t believe in a two-state “solution” to the Palestinian problem?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090323.wcosimp24/BNStory/specialComment/home

 

Read   https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/let-no-man-deceive-you/

  

There actually is no Biblical basis, promises, prophecy for Israel reclaiming this land in the whole New Testament.. just more Old Testament Jewish spins..   http://mccainvrsobama.wordpress.com/2008/12/12/the-restoration-of/

 The ends do not justify the means.. and does the Canadian PM Stephen Harper and the Conservatives now also GIVE approval of all of this too?  

 
SEE ALSO
 
 
– as to what it means to be chosen
 
– the dispensationalist reality
It is very clear that the Darby Plymouth Brethren Christians to compensate for their failure to try to convert Jewish persons have come up with false reasons for not doing so as well
 
  

So still now  what really is needed  firstly is not more CHEAP, PRETENTIOUS  self regulations,   the supposed discipline of their members , or even their ensuring their education, but real INSPECTIONS, EFFECTIVENESS , competency testing. 

 For it is a fact that anything that will put a self regulating body or a Ministry into a negative light will have a built in  tendency still to be denied,   suppressed, minimized in reality, to be ineffective .  

 
There in reality is the main  one important step that all consumers can take to protect themselves from any unscrupulous persons  and that is enforced, exemplary public exposure and prosecution of the supposedly guilty persons by a recognized judicial public body,  and so now how many such bad persons now have really been exposed, prosecuted in the last few years in reality too by the responsible Ministers as well?  None? and why not?   
 
Exemplary Public exposure and prosecution of the guilty serves very ones best interest… too often still missing in the PROFESSIONAL BODIES, EVEN IN THE RCMP, police   forces, churches, ALL GOVERNMENTS  as well it seems too.

  “about the ABUSERS, bullies, thugs, proud oppressors, war mongers “ 

THERE IS A  VERY BASIC COMMON MISCONCEPTION ON HOW TO DEAL WITH ANY PERCEIVED EVEN INJUSTICES, ABUSES, ANYWHERE, IN THE CHURCH AS WELL, BESIDES IMMEDIATELY CALLING THE LOCAL  POLICE..
 
THE NEW TESTAMENT IS CLEAR HOW TO DEAL WITH IT.. COMMUNICATION – AND YOU DON’T FIRST POST IT ALL ON THE NET.
 
First you merely ask the guilty, bad persons personally to repent twice, the first time without a witness, the second time with witnesses THAT you have asked them to repent.. and   proof, substantiation is NOT required.. after you have done that you can next post it openly on the net, tell all the others.
 
Next God is fully free to deal with the unrepentant guilty offenders and believe me he will.. I have now been doing for decades too..
 
I SIMPLY SEND AN EMAIL, I PUT IT INTO CLEARLY WRITING, SO THE GUILTY PARTY CANNOT SAY I DID NOT ASK HIM OR HER TO REPENT.
 
WHETHER THEY ACKNOWLEDGE IT OR NOT TO GOD DOES NOT MATTER.

THE POLICE, RCMP, MINISTERS, GOVERNMENT CONSULTANTS THESE DAYS, IMMIGRANT CONSULTANTS TOO  IT SEEMS , SEEM TO BE ANOTHER WORD FOR ABUSERS, THIEVES, LIARS CROOKS. SO WE ALL NEED TO DEAL WITH IT MORE EFFECTIVELY NOW TOO.

 

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CANADA POLITICAL CARTOONS

PM STEPHEN HARPER’S PAID WINTER HOLIDAY

FOR THE SELECT FEW WHILE THE REST WORK TO PAY FOR IT.

More cartoons

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/not-so-funny-cartoons/ 

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/not-so-funny-cartoons-2/

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/canadian-poltical-cartoons/

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/my-favorite-canadian-political-cartoons/

SEE ALSO http://picasaweb.google.com/anonconformer/Thenonconformer#  

 see also http://picasaweb.google.ca/anonconformer/  latest cartoons

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/transport-canada-stealing-taxpayers-money/

 ONTARIO Facing pressure to release more details about alleged fraud or wrongdoing investigated by the auditor-general, the city revealed that it had fired three staff and suspended 10 others without pay. But the city would not say for which among a list of allegations in the report, including theft and improperly cancelled parking tickets, the employees were punished. Meanwhile, in a separate case of alleged fraud, the city announced it had fired nine staff it had sent home with pay last month for allegedly filing false health-benefit claims and pocketing the cash. However, the mayor and city officials would not say how much, saying it could jeopardize a police probe into the allegations, uncovered by the company that administers the city’s benefits, Manulife Financial. The report includes allegations that employees improperly cancelled parking tickets, worked $50,000 in “excessive overtime,” viewed pornography on city computers, wrongly recommended private contractors to homeowners and rented their own apartments to social-services recipients. Pressed by reporters, Mr. Miller said three of the employees facing allegations in the auditor-general’s report were terminated, one resigned, and another 10 were suspended without pay. Mr. Ford, like other members of the audit committee, received a confidential briefing on the punishments behind closed doors but was “severely warned” not to share what he learned. He accused the mayor of trying to keep a lid on the allegations and the city of being too soft on the accused employees: “It’s coming from the top.”

 WHEN THE TAXPAYER’S MONEY IS ABUSED BY THIEVES, ALCOHOLICS, IT IS THE PROGRAMS, SERVICES TO THE POOR AND NEEDY PERSONS THAT ARE GENERALLY FIRST MADE TO PAY FOR IT. WE NEED BETTER BUDGET CONTROLS AND BETTER PUNISHMENT OF THE BAD GUYS TOO.

 

9 city employees fired in benefits claim fraud Toronto Star –  BY THE NUMBERS The city’s fraud and waste hotline received tips leading to findings of wrongdoing in 42 cases. The auditor general highlighted 15 of the 42 cases in his report.

Toronto refuses to release details of alleged fraud Globe and Mail

a professing Christian Prime Minister of Canada

 

00sh

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/

 

 

Imagine that a professing evangelical Christian Prime Minister of Canada Stephen Harper is stooping so low that he is trying to buy votes with alcohol, beer.. Taxpayer’s money should never, ever be used to   buy any alcohol anywhere.. will he also give out free playboys, condoms next too?  

The Canadian Press   OTTAWA – A free “beef and beer” night at a popular hangout near Parliament Hill has drawn attention to a smorgasbord of receptions, drinks and hors d’oeuvres lobbyists serve up to MPs.  The cozy rounds of free alcohol and food have reached a scale where even some MPs say it’s time to establish a public registry for the events.  One lobbyist says associations representing a range of interests host three or four receptions in and around Parliament Hill every day the House of Commons is sitting.  An MP says lobbyists use the tactic to organize political support for favoured policies, acquisitions or decisions cabinet ministers are contemplating – without having to register the discussions under the Lobbying Act.  “In the spirit of transparency for lobbying, it would make sense that all activities would be reported,” says New Democrat MP Paul Dewar.  The beef-and-beer night took place the day the Harper government unveiled its recession budget on behalf of hard-pressed Canadians.  The affair became a gossip item not just for the size of the crowd, but the quality of refreshments.  Everyone who was invited and walked in the door received three complimentary beer tickets and a no-limit buffet of what participants later described as “really, really good” sirloin on a bun.  The hosts – the Association of Canadian Brewers and the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association – invited all 308 MPs.  Government guests spotted under the dim lighting included Treasury Board President Vic Toews, in charge of the federal purse strings, and Transport Minister John Baird. Baird said later that, as convivial as the night was, he did not have even a sip or a taste since he’s a vegetarian and does not drink beer.  Baird led the Conservative campaign for transparency and stiffer rules for lobbyists when he steered the Public Accountability Act through Parliament in 2006.  Ministers of state in the crowd included Alberta MP Rob Merrifield and Saskatchewan MP Lynne Yelich. Ontario Tory Dean Del Maestro, parliamentary secretary for Heritage Minister James Moore, was spotted, along with a handful of Conservative backbenchers as well as opposition MPs.  New Democrat MP Peter Stoffer was among those who turned out, although he says he stayed for only 10 minutes because he had to rush off for another event.  He said he sees nothing wrong with the receptions, lunches and meals the lobbyists host.   “If they gave me a Mercedes Benz, that I would see would be a problem,” he said, adding the events are useful to gather information.  Spokesmen for the two lobby groups that put on the night at the pub D’Arcy McGee’s emphasized the social aspect of the evening. But one of them acknowledged it was a lobbying event.  “It’s part of our overall outreach strategy with government, so yes,” said Andre Fortin, public affairs director for the brewers.  Fortin and a spokesman for the fuels group, Robin Speer, declined to disclose the cost of the event. They both said their associations do not reveal “budgetary” details.  Other recent receptions and dinners included events by the Dairy Farmers of Canada, which invited all MPs to a Chateau Laurier wine and cheese reception during an annual conference and select MPs to a dinner the following evening. Stoffer says teams of individual farmers visited MPs’ offices before the dinner to lobby on issues such as continued producer control over the supply of food. He jokingly called the teams “swat squads” – a method also used by other interest groups.  The Distillers Association of Canada has launched an annual whisky “tasting” for politicians.  Association president Jan Westcott says the tastings, which he says began at the suggestion of Commons Speaker Peter Milliken, are meant to inform MPs about the industry and acquaint them with Canadian spirits.  “Imagine you’re talking to some politician and you’re trying to get him to represent a point of view in, let’s say, fighting with a foreign government, because we are big exporters, to open up markets for us,” Westcott said.  “If he doesn’t think that product is very good himself, how effective is he going to be in carrying the case for us?”  Duff Conacher, of the government ethics monitoring group Democracy Watch, says recent guides issued by ethics commissioner Mary Dawson mean the complimentary food and drinks should be out of bounds for cabinet ministers and parliamentary secretaries if they are clearly an attempt at influence.  Lobbyists must register contacts with cabinet ministers, parliamentary secretaries, police aides and senior bureaucrats, but there is no requirement to register the lobbying of backbench MPs.  Liberal MP Roger Cuzner said he’s open to putting the receptions and informal lobbying on the record.  “I don’t think anybody would be offended by it or be intimidated by developing a registry,” he said.  http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090215/national/lobbyist_trough

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/living-high-on-the-hog/

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/clearly-an-unacceptable-abuse/

 

 (Gal 5:19 KJV)  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20   Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.  (Col 3:5 KJV)  Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6   For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

about the bullies, thugs, proud oppressors, war mongers

The Hallmark of a democratic society is unregulated press and the right of free speech of all citizens, without being bullied , lied about, slandered but unfortunately tis is not always the case in Canada, not in the Internet, not even especially in the Christian Internet where your post can be twisted, lied about distorted, censored or yourself banned, likley by the same religious control freaks who would kill Jesus Christ today as well. They even try to tell us what to write.. How absurd. http://witnessed.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/now-about-the-abusers-bullies-thugs-proud-oppressors-war-mongers/

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Now we all do really have freedom of religion, freedom of choice, freedom of speech, the right to be heard now as well.. I clearly do believe in the right of everyone to speak, to speak out as well, and to be equally heard by all, so we can all judge what has been said if it is appropriate and we can next corresponding act upon it, even in the church, in the government, on the internet now too. Clearly some bad people falsely still DO DISALLOW THIS RIGHT… the realy bad persons especially as even I know this for sure as they falsely refuse the whole to be shared even as as to who they are firstly. They respond with a personal attack, inquisition, censorship, lies, slanders, diversions, distortions, instead of facing, dealing with the facts, truths being presented. Confirming to many what they still are really like, immoral, abusive bullies.  

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Some people say we need to turn our cheeks to our abusers and next they will become Christians because we love them is not true.. Jesus loved Judas and he Judas still went to hell.. if we continue with this approach we should le all the bad guys out of prison and they will be converted…. very very unlikely.

Yes they the unsaved will see we are Christians by how we Christians do love one another does not mean they will become Christians,, To become a Christian you need to repent and few people are willing to do this. Who wants to give up he pleasures of sin, a bad lifestyle on their own? not many.

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Let me tell you we do not have to accept human rights abuse that is a lie of the devil.. in this world we have the same rights as the bully even the right to see that a bully is punished for abusing us.. God is not ignorant about the injustices inflicted upon his people, nor does he accept any of our human rights abuses without punishing the abusers shortly.. see the Bible book of Esther if you have doubts..

Est 9:25 But when Esther came before the king, he commanded by letters that his wicked device, which he devised against the Jews, should return upon his own head, and that he and his sons should be hanged on the gallows.

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I have to admit it came to me as a shock firstly when I started to attend evangelical, Baptist, Pentecostal churches in Canada now as an adult that that same right to be respect, to speak, and to be heard, not to be bullied, falsely oppressed, the Legal and Human rights that I had before, often now did not exist in the churches surprisingly now of all places. Never saw so many control freaks, human rights abusers in my whole life next to the too often bad cops now too. And perversely many a despotic, crooked elder, pastor had wrongfully tried to shut me up, and even next had resorted next to slander me, to try to discredit me and what I had said, or whatever,

Even in the Christian circles we find many ostriches who cannot handle negative statements,

Jesus told us to preach solely the good news IS NOT TRUE, HE TOLD US TO PREACH THE FULL GOSPEL, THE GOOD AND BAD NEWS, THE BAD NEWS INCLUDES STILL THE REALITY MOST PEOPLE WILL GO TO HELL. THE PROPHETS OFTEN PREACHED MOSTLY THE BAD NEWS..One’s need to repent.

Many have it all wrong , yes we do not fellowship with thieves, liars, abusers, distorters, crooks, the bad persons whose real agenda is to take you to hell.. But that does not mean we kick out pout about the preachers who ask us to repent, whose simple, blunt messages many we find disturbing

Those who are ashamed of using the name of Jesus are not Jesus Disciples. It is only the name of Jesus that saves, heals, delivers you.. not any other name.. not the Jewish name…

In real life sibling rivalry, bullies, oppressors can be found everywhere, in our homes, amongst our associates, in our communities, on the net, in politics, civil and public services, even in the churches as well. These are the people who falsely abuse others and despise the human rights of others, and they falsely do think now that God himself approves of it or overlooks it all.. Nothing could be further from the truth. But our own final peace, reward will be in Heaven.  https://postedat.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/oppressors-or-bullies-are-always-unacceptable/

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Now about these false bullies, thugs, the proud oppressors, war mongers

This is what the Lord , the God of Israel, himself now rather says about them all:    “Many  sorrow awaits them; their false pride will soon lie in total ruins, they will be humiliated and  devastated rather. No one will ever brag about them again.  Listen rather to the forthcoming  cries,  their  cries of devastation due to their  great personal devastations, destructions.  They cry out in terror. Because they  have trusted in their own wealth and skill, they will be taken fully  captive unavoidably too.  Cursed are they also   because they had  refuse to do the Lord’s work, they held, hold back their swords from shedding Justice! “From their  earliest days, the proud oppressors, bullies  have lived in peace, never suffering setbacks but all that is now about to change. But the time is coming soon,” says the Lord,  “when I will send men to displace them  from their false self confidence, security. They will unsettle them, and permanently   then shatter their false peace, false confidence! At last they all  will be ashamed also of their false idol , their god of war.    You used to boast, ‘We are heroes, we are mighty men of war.’ But now the bully  and his supporters will all  be destroyed. His most promising youth are also now next doomed to slaughter,” says the King, whose name is the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.   “Destruction is coming fast for them; it’s calamity threatens ominously.  Rather  weep for him and cry!   See how the once strong scepter is rather broken, how the once supposedly beautiful staff is shattered!   “Come down from your glory and sit in the dust, you supporters of them too. They will also tear down all your false securities, refuge.. ‘The bully, oppressor,  lies in ruins, disgraced; weeping and wailing! Judgment has been poured out on them and their false supporters too.  “His strength has ended. His arm has been broken,” says the Lord. “Let him stagger and fall like a drunkard, cause he has rebelled against the Lord.  He rather will wallow in his own vomit,  ridiculed by all.  We had all heard of his once boastful , for his pride is very great.   We all seem to know of his lofty pride,   his arrogance, and his haughty heart. I also do know about his insolence,”   says the Lord, “but his boasts are empty—  as empty as his vain deeds. And the destroyer has stripped you bare!  Your past  Joy and gladness are gone.   No one now hears their once  shouts of joy. There is shouting, yes, but not of joy.   “Instead, their awful cries of terror can now be heard world wide too.  “I will put an end to them,” says the Lord, “for the people offer sacrifices at the pagan shrines and burn incense to their false gods.   but now all of  their wealth has disappeared.   There is crying and sorrow as a result. For I have smashed them now  like an old, unwanted jar.   How it is unrepairably shattered! Hear the wailing! Their  shame of Moab! It has become an object of ridicule, an example of ruin to all their  neighbors.”   This is what the Lord says:    “Look! The enemy swoops down like an eagle,   spreading his wings over them. Their resources cities will fall, and their strongholds will be seized. Even the mightiest of them will be in anguish like a woman in labor. For they have  falsely even boasted against the Lord. Now  “Terror and traps and snares will be your lot,” says the Lord. “Those who flee in terror will fall into a trap, and those who escape the trap will step into a snare.   I will see to it that you do not get away, for the time of your judgment has come,”   says the Lord. For a fire comes upon them to devour the entire lands, resources,  with all their rebellious friends, supporter “Now many , they weep for you!   Your sons and your daughters   have even been taken away as captives”.  Jeremiah 48

see also http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/12/26/young-offenders/

https://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/reality-a-lesson-for-all-of-the-rcmp/

God speaks to us in many ways today

Personal Humbleness is one of the basic prerequisite to allow God to personally speak to us. I know that many persons now tend to limit, cripple how God can speak to them, as only being through the Mind, through the Bible, only through others,  or through circumstances.. well I also know that the devil can speak to you and me that way now too.. or he devil can send you a supposedly wise person telling you what you should do , what to do. and  often rather making it a lot worse.

Although I had been a Christian for 15 years already. .I was 35 years old when someone said i could hear God speak to me and boy I  was mad.. mad  mad.. and I said it was all untrue..   I  recognized next that  the sprit of God was telling me not to get upset and that God would talk to me this evening, next I was to drive to my favorite spot where i loved to see the mountains views this evening a and which i did..  when i got there God told me to shut up and be quiet for 30 minutes first.. next he said for me to praise the lord.. which i did for 30 minutes.. and then i could hear God talking to me specially.. for about an hour.. he God next told me he had my life planned for me. Now from then on I have learned to talk with God, to pray to him, to share with him my needs, and to discuss them, as well as listen to what he says next..

Now I  had send a birthday present my nephew and I had left a part of it out.. God told me I could send it in another Parcel, so next I had  sent the other parcel next when I was subsequently told that the parcel was lost in delivery. This surprised me cause as why would God tell me to send it.. But a few weeks later I got a phone call telling me the parcel was found. it was still  delivered.. Jesus said my sheep hear my Voice, and the Bible says that you will not go to the left or right unless you hear a confirming voice telling you this is the way walk there in.

Some people seem amazed that God can, and will now speak to his children, given the proper conditions being met, but me I am often amazed how is it that so many people cannot hear God, as to what un-confessed, un-repented of sins are obstructing their relationship with him now..

Believe it I do often hear God, Jesus, holy Spirit talking to me in an audible and in audible voices. It brings me great joy always now too.

God will speak to us


-but we also do need to write it down because our memories tend to be very short.
-and we need to share it with others next as well for as we sow more will be given back to us..
If you know beforehand the Bible well you will also know the reality of his revelations which will not contradict the Bible..

God’s voice. Elijah described it as a still, small voice (I Kings 19:12).
I do always listen  for an inner audible voice, and I say too “Speak lord for they servant is ready to hear”..- Doubt may eventually next hinder you at first, but throw it off, reminding yourself that it is a biblical concept, and that God is present, speaking to His children.- Don’t take your own way,  yourself, or your own personal importance too seriously which is also a sin.. of pride, rebellion, stubbornness,
 
When you do, you become tense and get in the  way of the Holy Spirit’s movement. It is also  when  we cease our labors and enter His rest that  God is free to flow (Heb. 4:10). Therefore  turn your attention  toward God in praise and worship, seeking His  face. As you wait before God, fixing your gaze solely on Jesus,   in a humble state of mind  and become all still before him, fixing your gaze on Jesus,  God  is present with you, you will become more real to you and you too will discover that you are indeed  dialoguing with God.
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You Can Hear God’s Voice! ( and here is one of many approaches to do so)
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Four keys to consistent, powerful, life-giving conversations with God
 
How to receive revelation knowledge
 
An example of revelation knowledge is when you are reading the Bible and a verse leaps off the page, hits  you between the eyes, and God says, “This is for you right now.” These are precious experiences for the believer. However, for many, they do not happen often enough. There are seven things I do which allow me  the privilege of receiving revelation knowledge every time I read the Bible. Truth and insights leap off the  page and an understanding of how they are to adjust my life permeates my spirit and soul. I love this  experience and hunger for it every time I read the Scriptures. That is why I prepare myself by doing the  following seven things. Prayerfully reflect on these steps and determine which ones you do and don’t use. 
 
 
Biblical Meditation  Resulting in illumination, revelation knowledge, anointed reasoning  
Do Not Do This:
LEFTBRAIN
STUDY/RATIONAL HUMANISM
1. Have unconfessed sin
2. Have a pre-conceived attitude
3. Be independent: “I can…”
4. Read quickly
5. Rely on reason & analysis only 
6. Read without specific purpose
7. Take credit for insights
 
But Do This:
WHOLEBRAIN/HEART
MEDITATION/DIVINE REVELATION
1. Be washed by Jesus’ blood
2. Have a teachable attitude
3. Pray: “Lord, show me”
4. Slow down, ponder, muse
5. Combine anointed reason,  flowing pictures, music &  speech
6. Read with focused purpose
7. Glorify God for insights
 
The Seven Steps of  Biblical Meditation Explained: 

1. LORD, CLEANSE ME BY YOUR BLOOD: Since receiving divine revelation is at the heart of biblical meditation, you must prepare yourself to receive from the Holy Spirit by repenting and being cleansed by the blood of the Lamb. You must be obedient to previous revelations from God (Matt. 7:6), and confess any sin in your life, so you are not cut off from ongoing revelation (Is. 59:1,2; I Jn. 1:9).

2. LORD, GRANT ME A TEACHABLE ATTITUDE: Revelation is given to those who maintain an  attitude of humility, and it is withheld from the proud and the arrogant. So keep an  open, humble attitude before God, allowing Him the freedom to shed greater light on  any ideas you currently hold and to alter them as He sees fit (Jas. 4:6; II Pet. 1:19).

3. LORD, I WILL NOT USE MY FACULTIES MYSELF: You can do nothing of your own initiative but only what you hear and see by the Spirit (Jn. 5:19,20,30). You do not have a mind to use, but a mind to present to God so He can use it and fill it with anointed reason and divine vision (Prov. 3:5-7; Rom.  12:1,2). If you use your mind yourself, it is a dead work (Heb. 6:1,2).

4. LORD, I PRAY THAT THE EYES OF MY HEART MIGHT BE  ENLIGHTENED: Slow down as you read, mulling the text over and over in your heart and mind, praying constantly for God to give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him (Eph.  1:17,18; Ps. 119:18).

5. LORD, I PRESENT THE ABILITIES TO REASON AND TO IMAGINE TO YOU TO FILL AND FLOW THROUGH BY YOUR SPIRIT: Meditation involves presenting your faculties to God for Him to fill and use. These include your left-brain reasoning capacities as well as your right-brain  visual capacities. Look for the river of God (i.e.  “Spirit flow”) to guide and fill both hemispheres, granting you anointed reasoning and dream and vision (Jn. 7:37-39). Music can assist you, as can muttering, speaking, and writing as you go through the discovery process (II Kings 3:15).

6. LORD, SHOW ME THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM I AM FACING: Focused attention brings additional energies of  concentration of heart and mind, which help  release revelation. For example, note the difference between a ray of sunlight hitting a piece of  paper, and sunlight going through a magnifying  glass to hit a piece of paper. The focused energycreates a ray so concentrated that the paper bursts into flames. When you have a hunger to master a new understanding and discipline, that hungry and searching heart will cause you to see things you  would not normally see (Matt. 5:6).

7. THANK YOU, LORD, FOR WHAT YOU HAVE SHOWN ME: Realizing that the revelation came from the indwelling Holy Spirit, give all the glory to God for what has been revealed (Eph. 3:21). 

Another Great Aid to “Seeing”: Writing Out Scripture

When you write or type out a verse, you discover words which you  otherwise might have missed. Therefore, I write out verses which I  know are key truths for my life. I pray over them, diagram them,  analyze them, meditate on them. That is why I have written many of  my books. I write so I can learn, so I can put truths I am understanding in my own words and in a framework which is meaningful for me.

The following is the law which God gave for new kings who had just  been crowned and were coming to sit upon their throne for the first  time: “Now it shall come about when he sits on the throne of his  kingdom, he shall write for himself a copy of this law on a  scroll in the presence of the Levitical priests” (Deut. 17:18). Since we are kings and priests, are we to do any less (I Pet 2:9)? Let  us make the writing out of Scriptures an important part of our lives.

When we hear of one actually claiming to be able to hear the voice of God. However, we do  not scoff, for several reasons. First, men and  women throughout the Bible heard God’s  voice. Also, there are some highly effective  and reputable men and women of God alive  today who demonstrate that they hear God’s
voice. Finally, there is a deep hunger within us  all to commune with God, and hear Him speak  within our hearts.
As a born-again, Bible-believing Christian, I  struggled unsuccessfully for years to hear God’s  voice. I prayed, fasted, studied my Bible and  listened for a voice  within, all to no avail. There  was no inner voice that I could hear!   God set me aside for a year to study, read, and  experiment in the area of learning to hear His voice. During that time, the Lord taught me  four keys that opened the door to two-way  prayer. I have discovered that not only do they  work for me, but they have worked for many  thousands of believers who have been taught  to use them, bringing tremendous intimacy to  their Christian experience and transforming their very way of living. This will happen to you  also as you seek God, utilizing the following  four keys. The key are all found in Habakkuk 2: 1,2. I encourage you to read this passage before  going on.

Key #1 – God’s voice in our hearts may sound  like a flow of spontaneous thoughts. ( confused also by the devil’s obstructions sometimes) Therefore, when I tune to God solely (  In prayer I first do ask the devil to stop talking to me, and I ask God alone to speak to me, God next he answers this prayer, I tune to spontaneity. The Bible says that the Lord answered me and  said…(Hab. 2:2). Habakkuk knew the sound of can and does speak that way at times. How  ever, I have found that for most of us, most of  the time, God’s inner voice comes to us first  as an interrupted spontaneous thoughts, visions, feelings, or impressions, (since we tend top have no room for god and often are busy pursing our own selfish, self centered ways and thoughts) . For example, haven’t each of us had the experience of driving down the road  and having a thought come to us to pray for  a certain person? We generally acknowledge  this to be the voice of God calling us to pray for  that individual. My question to you is, “What  did God’s voice sound like as you drove in your  car? Was it an inner, audible voice, or was it a  spontaneous thought that lit upon your mind?”  Most of you would say that God’s voice came  to you as a spontaneous thought.So I thought to myself, “Maybe when I listen  for God’s voice, I should be listening for a flow  of spontaneous thoughts. Maybe spirit-level  communication is received as spontaneous  thoughts, impressions, feelings, and visions.”  Through experimentation and feedback from  thousands of others, I am now convinced that  this is so.

The Bible confirms this in many ways. The definition of paga, the Hebrew word for intercession, is “a chance encounter or an accidental  intersecting.” When God lays people on our  hearts for intercession, He does it through  paga, a chance-encounter thought, accidentally  intersecting our thought processes. Therefore, when I tune to God, I tune to chance-encounter thoughts or spontaneous thoughts. When I am poised quietly before God in prayer, I have found that the flow of spontaneous thoughts  that comes is quite definitely from God.

Key #2 – I must learn to still my own thoughts and emotions, so that I can sense God’s flow of thoughts and emotions within me.

Habakkuk said, “I will stand on my guard post and station myself on the rampart…” (Hab. 2:1). Habakkuk knew that in order to hear God’s quiet, inner, spontaneous thoughts, he had to first go to a quiet place and still his own thoughts and emotions. Psalm 46:10 encourages us to be still, and know that He is God. There is a deep inner knowing (spontaneous flow) in our spirits that each of us can experience when we quiet our flesh and our minds.I have found several simple ways to quiet myself  so that I can more readily pick up God’s spontaneous flow. Loving God through a quiet worship song is a most effective means for me (For God inhabits the praises of his people, his nearness is made more real,  note  II Kings 3:15). It is as I become still (thoughts,  will, and emotions) and am poised before God  that the divine flow is realized. Therefore, after  I worship quietly and then become still, I open  myself for that spontaneous flow. If thoughts  come to me of things I have forgotten to do,  I write them down and then dismiss them. If  thoughts of guilt or unworthiness come to my  mind, I repent thoroughly, receive the washing  of the blood of the Lamb, and put on His robe  of righteousness, seeing myself spotless before  the presence of God (Is. 61:10; Col. 1:22).

As I fix my gaze upon Jesus (Heb. 12:2), be coming quiet in His presence, and sharing with  Him what is on my heart, I find that two-way  dialogue begins to flow. Spontaneous thoughts  flow from the throne of God to me, and I find that I am actually conversing with the King of  Kings. It is very important that you become still and properly focused if you are going to receive  the pure word of God. If you are not still, you  will simply be receiving your own thoughts. If  you are not properly focused on Jesus, you will  receive an impure flow, because the intuitive  flow comes out of that upon which you have  fixed your eyes. Therefore, if you fix your eyes  upon Jesus, the intuitive flow comes from Jesus. If you fix your gaze upon some desire of  your heart, the intuitive flow comes out of that desire of your heart. To have a pure flow you  must first of all become still, and secondly, you  must carefully fix your eyes upon Jesus. Again I  will say, quietly worshiping the King, and then  receiving out of the stillness that follows quite easily accomplish this.

 
Key #3 – As I pray, I fix the eyes of my heart upon Jesus, seeing in the spirit the dreams and visions of Almighty God.

We have already alluded to this principle in  the previous paragraphs; however, we need to  develop it a bit further. Habakkuk said, “I will  keep watch to see,” and God said, “Record the  vision” (Hab. 2:1,2). It is very interesting that  Habakkuk was going to actually start looking  for vision as he prayed. He was going to open the eyes of his heart, and look into the spirit  world to see what God wanted to show him.  This is an intriguing idea.I had never thought of opening the eyes of  my heart and looking for vision. However, the  more I thought of it, the more I realized this  was exactly what God intends for me to do. He  gave me eyes in my heart. They are to be used  to see in the spirit world the vision and movement of Almighty God. I believe there is an  active spirit world functioning all around me. is world is full of angels, demons, the Holy Spirit, the omnipresent God, and His omnipresent Son, Jesus. There is no reason for me not to see it, other than my rational culture, which tells me not to believe it is even there and provides no instruction on how to become open to seeing this spirit world.

The  most obvious prerequisite to seeing is that  we need to look. Daniel was seeing a vision in  his mind and he said, “I was looking…I kept  looking… I kept  looking” (Dan. 7:2,9,13). Now  as I pray, I look for Jesus present with me, and  I watch Him as He speaks to me, doing and  saying the things that are on His heart. Many  Christians will find that if they will only look,  they will see. Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us  (Matt. 1:23). It is as simple as that. You will see  a spontaneous inner vision in a manner similar  to receiving spontaneous inner thoughts. You  can see Christ present with you in a comfortable setting, because Christ is present with  you in a comfortable setting. Actually, you  will probably discover that inner vision comes  so easily you will have a tendency to reject it,  thinking that it is just you. (Invalid Doubt is Satan’s  most effective weapon against the Church.)  However, if you will persist in recording these  visions, your doubt will soon be overcome by   faith as you recognize that the content of them  could only be birthed in Almighty God.God continually revealed Himself to His covenant people using dream and vision. He did so  from Genesis to Revelation and said that, since  the Holy Spirit was poured out in Acts 2, we  should expect to receive a continuing flow of  dreams and visions (Acts 2:1-4,17). Jesus, our  perfect Example, demonstrated this ability of  living out of ongoing contact with Almighty  God. He said that He did nothing on His own initiative, but only that which He saw the Father doing, and heard the Father saying (Jn.  5:19,20,30). What an incredible way to live!

Is it actually possible for us to live out of the  divine initiative as Jesus did? A major purpose  of Jesus’ death and resurrection was that the  veil be torn from top to bottom, giving us access into the immediate presence of God, and  we are commanded to draw near (Lk. 23:45;  Heb. 10: 19-22). Therefore, even though what I  am describing seems a bit unusual to a rational  twentieth-century culture, it is demonstrated  and described as being a central biblical teaching and experience. It is time to restore to the  Church all that belongs to the Church.

Because of their intensely rational nature and existence in an overly-rational culture, some will need more assistance and understanding of these truths before they can move into them. They will find this help in the book Communion With God by the same authors.

Key #4 – Journaling, the writing out of our prayers and God’s answers, provides a greater new freedom in hearing God’s voice.

God told Habakkuk to record the vision and  inscribe it on tablets…(Hab. 2:2). It had never  crossed my mind to write out my prayers and  God’s answers as Habakkuk did at God’s command. If you begin to search Scripture for this  idea, you will find hundreds of chapters demonstrating it (Psalms, many of the prophets, Revelation). Why then hadn’t I ever thought  of it? (Or why have I refused to do it is the question too)I called the process “journaling,” and I began  experimenting with it. I discovered it to be a  fabulous facilitator to clearly discerning God’s”

Many academic scholars study the Bible and they still fail at it drastically.
A Study (My use of one part of one hemisphere of my brain) 
1. Is nowhere endorsed in Scripture (II Tim. 2:15 is a mis-translation in the KJV Bible).
2. Is self in action (Humanism – a false god).

3. Is self using reason (Rationalism – a false god).

4. Results in wisdom from below – earthly, natural, demonic (Jas. 3:15). For example, reason caused Peter to be
at odds with the purposes of God (Jn. 18:10,11).

Study violates the following biblical principles:

1. Gal. 2:20 – I resurrect self, which no longer lives.

2. Rom. 12:1 – I am using my faculties rather than presenting them to God to use.

3. Is. 1:18 – I’m reasoning, rather than reasoning together with God.

4. Gen. 3:5 – I’ve fallen prey to the temptation of the Garden of Eden that “I can know good and evil.”

  

Meditation (Hebrew/Lamad) To murmur; to converse with oneself, and hence aloud; speak; talk; babbling;  communication; mutter; roar; mourn; a murmuring sound; i.e., a musical notation;  to study; to ponder; revolve in the mind; imagine; pray; prayer; reflection; devotion”  (Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance*)

Meditation (God’s use of every part of both hemispheres of my brain as He fills and flows out through my heart by His Spirit)

1. Is endorsed 18 times in the KJV Bible.

2. Is God in action within the individual.

3. Is God granting revelation through the heart and mind which has been yielded to Him.

4. Results in wisdom from above – pure, peaceable, gentle (Jas. 3:17).

Meditation applies the following biblical principles:

1. Gal. 2:20 – I let Christ live through me.

2. Rom. 12:1 – I am yielding my outer faculties to the indwelling Spirit (to “flow” – Jn. 7:38).

3. Is. 11:2 When reasoning together with God, I receive a spirit of wisdom and understanding and knowledge.

4. Jn. 5:19,20,30 – I’m living as Jesus did, out of divine initiative, doing what I see and hear my Father doing. “

– Visit www.cwgministries.org  for many more free articles, free downloadable books and additional information on hearing God’s voice.

So did you start your journey with God in full, or are you still lost, in the wilderness? still in un-confessed, un-repented  sins, self centered, selfishly doing your own thing. Trying wrongfully to do it in your own strength.

One of the most successful of Satan’s deceptions is the promulgation of the belief that he and his angels are not here on the earth, In Revelation 12:7-9 we read, “And there was war in heaven: Michael [Christ] and his angels fought against the dragon [Satan]; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Satan’s angels are the angels that he deceived into following him in his rebellion against God. Notice that Satan and his angels [devils] were not cast out of heaven to hell; they were cast out to the earth, which is where they are right now! Jesus says in Luke 10:18, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” Revelation 12:12: “Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.” Additional texts which show that Satan resides on the earth are found in the book of Job. The story of the Garden of Eden is given in Genesis 2:8 through 3:24. There are only four persons mentioned: God, Adam, Eve, and the devil, Satan, who masqueraded as a serpent. Then, after Adam and Eve had been expelled, God stationed angels to guard the garden.  “Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created. . . .” God therefore certainly did not create the devil, but He did create the perfect, holy angel who later became the devil. When God created beings with free will, He knew that sooner or later one of them would begin to experience pride and selfish ambition just as Satan did. If Satan had not been created, the experience that happened to him would have happened to another angel. Why God created beings with free will, beings who can disobey if they choose, The devil still walks on earth and reports to God.  Job 1:7 says, “And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”  Genesis 1:31 tells us that “God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.” Everything was in perfect harmony with everything else. None of God’s creatures ever hurt another or made another unhappy. Where, then, did these obnoxious things come from? Where do the diseases from which mankind suffers come from? Why do animals and human beings hurt and kill one another now when they did not do this originally? Why does the lion eat other animals now instead of straw like the ox, as it did before? Consider the experience of the apostle Paul. A dedicated soldier of truth for the Lord and writer of many of the books of the New Testament, Paul had a physical infirmity. In 2 Corinthians 12:7, he tells us where his infirmity came from. “And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.” Paul says that his problem was from Satan. He also says that he was given the problem so that he would not become proud because of the abundance of God’s revelations to him. God revealed to Paul the whole truth concerning Satan’s rebellion, and it is easy to see that this privilege might have tended to make Paul proud. You see, God did not afflict Paul, but He allowed Satan to do so. Another text that shows that the devil is the cause of pain and suffering is Luke 13:11. “And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.” Here a woman is described who was paralyzed in a bowed-together position, probably with arthritis, for eighteen years. Did God do this to that poor woman and make her suffer for eighteen years? Of course not. God is the ultimate of love and kindness. In Luke 13:16, Jesus explains who did do this to the woman. “And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?” You see, Satan afflicted this woman just as he afflicted Paul and just as he causes sickness and suffering in our world today. Satan is the one who causes all disease and suffering in our world.  The only hope we have of penetrating this wall of lies and deception which Satan has built around us is in the whole Bible,  the New Testament included, the standard for truth in our world. Remember that God cannot lie. (Titus 1:2). First Peter 5:8 tells us to “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” We get a further understanding of the extent of our deception in 2 Corinthians 4:4, which explains that Satan “hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” Proverbs 16:25 tells us that “There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” First Corinthians 2:14 says, “The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him.” In Matthew 24:24 Jesus Himself warns that “There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” 2 Corinthians 11:14,15. “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”

 

Latter Rain

Latter Rain (Christian Church) Movement – The real latter day saints..

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For a great background introduction see http://lifebyjesus.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/jesus-christ-is-god/

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 The Latter Rain Movement also now is  the Pentecostalism Biblical teaching that the Lord is pouring out His Spirit again, as He did at Pentecost, and equipping the Holy Spirit filled believers to do his will .
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The term “latter rain” was first used early in the history of Pentecostalism, when David Wesley Myland wrote a book called Latter Rain Songs in 1907. Three years later, Myland wrote The Latter Rain Covenant, a defense of Pentecostalism in general.
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 Joel 2:23, “Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.”
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Truthfully the  “rain” in this verse is the  outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The “latter rain” (the present  end-times outpouring) would be greater than the “former rain.”
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In 1948, a “revival” broke out in Saskatchewan, Canada, and the teachings of the Latter Rain movement were clarified. Those involved in the revival were convinced that they were on the verge of a new era, one in which the Holy Spirit would demonstrate His power in a greater way than the world had ever seen. Not even the age of the apostles, they said, had witnessed such a movement of the Holy Spirit.
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 Latter Rain doctrine includes the following beliefs:
– All the gifts of the Spirit, including tongues, are received through the laying on of hands
– All Christians can be demonized and do require deliverance
– God has restored all the offices of ministry to the Church, including apostle and prophet
– divine healing can be administered through the anointing with oil or the laying on of hands
– Our own praise and worship of God does  usher God more effectively   into our presence
– The women have a full and equal ministry role in the Church
– Eventually all denominational lines will be destroyed, and the Church will unify in the last days –
the “latter rain”   Church is  victorious over the world until the entrance of Christ’s kingdom
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Genesis 1:28,   ”Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”
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THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD CHURCHES BUT THE NEW APOSTOLIC REFORMATION IS DECEPTIVE
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The International Coalition of Apostles headed by C. Peter Wagner is the most influential purveyor of the New Apostolic Reformation, a term coined by Wagner. This organization is really an extension of the New Order of the Latter Rain whose influences and mentors include William Branham, Franklin Hall, the Hawtin brothers, and more recently Bill Hamon, Paul Cain and the Kansas City Prophets. The doctrines of the Latter Rain have influenced most of the televangelists on TV today, and so have crept deceptively into many denominations. The main heretical teachings of the New Order Of The Latter Rain, as ruled in 1949 at the General Council of the Assemblies of God held in Seattle, were as follows: (1) The restoration of foundational apostles and prophets in the churches. (2) The teaching and promotion of a transferable impartation or anointing that are passed on “by” the laying on of hands “by” the will of man. (3) Confession and deliverance from sin to men. (4) The impartation of spiritual gifts by the laying on of hands such as the gift of languages for missionary service and other “ministry skills”. (5) The extreme and unscriptural practice of imparting or imposing personal leadings by the means of the gifts of utterance, “word of knowledge” or prophecy. (6) Distortions of scripture interpretations, which are in opposition to teachings and practices generally accepted among the Church. These doctrines deemed heretical by the Assemblies Of God in 1949, which are now common fare because of the Brownsville ‘Revival” and the Third Wave movement, are all being promoted today in the New Apostolic Reformation. http://www.scribd.com/doc/16611959/New-Apostolic-Reformation-Is-Deceptive
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I ATTENDED A LATTER RAIN CHURCH  FOR MANY YEARS, I LOVED THEIR TEACHINGS, THEIR GREAT SERVICES AT THE CALGARY CHRISTIAN CENTRE,  BUT  IN THE END I HELPED TO CLOSE THE CHURCH DOWN AND I HELPED TO GET  RID OF  ALL THE RATHER BAD PASTORS  INCLUDING REV DAVID LAGORE THERE TOO..  AS IT NOW HAD  TOO MANY CROOKS, DISHONEST PERSONS. THEY HAD FALSELY  HIJACKED LATTER RAIN TEACHINGS TO TRY TO  MAKE MONEY OUT OF IT.. THERE ARE ALWAYS STILL GOOD AND BAD PASTORS,CHURCHES TOO.. WHERE PEOPLE CAN GET FOOD POISONING  TOO.. http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/07/12/bad-pastors-bad-deacons-bad-elders-bad-church/
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Here 28/30 pastor’s relatives were on the church payroll.. and lying, steal, adultery was also common even amongst the Pastors.. I CAUGHT ONE OF THEIR PASTORS RENTING WORLDLY  VIDEOS.
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EACH PERSON CAN BE A DR JEKYLL OR A MR HYDE CONCURRENTLY, A GOOD PERSON AT ONE TIME AND OTHER BAD PERSON NEXT TOO IT DEPENDS UPON WHAT PART OF YOU YOU NOW DO ALLOW TO DOMINATE, INFLUENCE, CONTROL YOU. WE CAN WALK IN THE FLESH OR IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. We can walk humbly or walk in a false pride… AND THE RESULTS WILL VARY TOO.
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By the way while I consider the Pentecostal churches to be far superior over any other groups, denominations  still there are good and bad Pentecostals, good and bad Pentecostal pastors, churches.  Just like there are good and bad Professing Christians  https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/09/13/the-false-jesus-name-apostolic-holiness-church-oneness-pentecostal-christianity/
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It is a very sad reality that even these days in the churches  that up to 70 percent of the pastors have not been called by God, they are imposters, hirelings and are not genuine shepherds of the flock.  https://postedat.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/spirtual-abuse-by-the-so-called-christian-leaders/
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These third wave named Pentecostal Ministers are the crooks, thieves, liars who use the Church, Gospel to steal God’s money for themselves. they use a sensationalized approach of presenting the gospel. They do it cause it attracts visitors, followers and increases their incomes.
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1 Pet 5:2 KJV) Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
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(1 Pet 5:3 KJV) Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. The International Coalition of Apostles headed by C. Peter Wagner is a superficial, pretentious approach to the reality of real Apostleship and the related gifts of the Holy Spirit..

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If you let any of preachers alone tell you what is the Gospel truth and what you should believe you likely will end up going to hell, since all preachers are imperfect men, and all men tend to still lie as well and too often still for various reasons too.

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I serve Jesus and not mere man, and Jesus is always first for me. I thank God that while I as a sinner am still  totally helpless to be delivered from my sins here one earth, but Jesus died for them and forgave them when I admitted them, asked for his forgiveness. Should should we all, all pastors, included.
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The Latter Rain was a post-war movement within Pentecostal Christianity which remains for some PEOPLE STILL VERY controversial to this day. ( The problem often lies with the leaders, who did not live, practice, what they preach to others too. What is the Latter Rain teaching? Today a revival of the Latter Rain heresy that was rejected in 1950 by the  assembly of God denomination, It was wrong  that many of the Assembly Of God  Pentecostal churches were jealous, thus critical  of this Ministry to this day as well. Their rejection of it to me was unjustifiable still,and all of critiques firstly need  to be balanced by honesty..)) http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/the-assembly-of-god-pentecostals-vs-the-latter-rain-pentecostals/
A very lively church when it is led by the right, Godly leaders.. and a very bad church when the shepherds are bad.. https://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/healing-todd-bentley-florda-lakeland-revival/
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Many people write half truths, these half truths still do not make liars into honest men..
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So far nothing has caused me to change my views on the subject.
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For clarification in discussion of the Latter Rain a distinction should be made between: *The Latter Rain Revival (1947-1952) *The Latter Rain Movement (1952-1960s) *Those persons next influenced by the Latter Rain.

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Origin and Influences

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The Latter Rain Movement had its beginnings in the years following World War II. It was contemporary with the evangelical awakening which was starting with Billy Graham at the forefront, as well as the Healing Revival with Oral Roberts, Jack Coe, and William Branham at the forefront. Although William Branham was never a part of the Latter Rain as such, he was revered by its leaders. It had in fact been a Branham meeting which triggered the start of the Latter Rain.
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Several Pentecostal leaders of a small orphanage outside of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, after visiting the meeting got a vision for a different dimension of Christianity and began to fast and pray in search of it. Later that year, revival events occurred. News quickly swept across Canada and the United States, influencing many Pentecostal believers.  (This explains why it is found in Western Canada.. where it competes directly with the Christian & Missionary Alliance Corporation too. The Western Canada Alliance Churches sadly are  known for  preaching Pentecostalism   but not practicing, living it now too. See the many posts about the bad Alliance. 
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Because of its grassroots and unstructured nature, history may never know the breadth of its influence. As the revival itself died down after a few years, those who had been changed by the doctrine formed various groups which came to become known as “The Latter Rain (Movement)”. The following list includes some representative leaders of various branches, both past and present.

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Founding Leaders

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*George Warnock (who had been Ern Baxter’s secretary), wrote “The Feast of Tabernacles” which became very influential not only for its view of the feasts but for its approach to the Scriptures. One identifiable mark of those influenced by the Latter Rain is their spiritual hermeneutic. *George Hawtin and his brother Ern, were key in the early spread of the movement. They traveled widely, and as they traveled the spirit and influence of the Latter Rain caught on. *A. Earl Lee from southern California was one of the fathers of the movement in Southern California. He had previously been involved with Aimee Semple McPherson..
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Mainstream Leaders

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*Kevin Conner is a very influential Bible teacher who came out of the Latter Rain and who has taken the best of these new ideas and blended them with the more traditional hermeneutics. His approach has influenced such leading ministers as T.D. Jakes. Conner is in fact part of a larger movement known as MFI which represents perhaps the most theologically solid group to directly emerge from the Latter Rain. *David Schoch was a leader associated with this branch of the Latter Rain. The church he led is now known as “City At the Cross” in Long Beach, CA. They have a helpful article here [1] *Wade Taylor came out of the Latter Rain, and was mentor to Robin McMillan, pastor of the lead fellowship of Rick Joyner’s MorningStar Ministry, which itself is very reflective of a Latter Rain ideal. *Glenn Ewing and his son Robert Ewing from Waco, Texas. Among others, the Ewings trained Jim Laffoon, leading prophet for Every Nation.
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Cult-like Movements

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*John Robert Stevens and his movement “The Walk” are an example of a ministry which emerged from the Latter Rain but became cultish. Royal Cronquist was another well known leader in this group. Influential charismatic Francis Frangipane came out of Stevens’ ministry, leaving before it turned in a cult-like direction. *Sam Fife and his movement “The Move” are another example of a cultish movement which was associated with the Latter Rain *Bill Britton teaching about Jesus as a “sample” or “example” son is connected to the Manifested Sons of God Theology which was taken to theological extremes. *Maranatha Campus Ministries, an outreach to college and university campuses, was accused of being a cult because of its highly authoritarian structure. It dissolved in 1989, and many of its leaders regrouped later in the 1990s to form what is now Every Nation.
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Contemporary Figures

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*Bishop Bill Hamon from Santa Rosa Beach, Florida. Hamon has been very influential in the Charismatic movement, including being featured on the cover of Charisma Magazine. *Dr. Kelley Varner from South Africa has a teaching ministry which is Latter Rain based. *Charles Schmitt, pastor of the large Immannuel’s Church in Silver Spring, MD, was spent time in the Latter Rain.
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Schools

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*Elim Bible Institute in New York was the center of much Latter Rain activity. *Portland Bible College, where Conner formerly taught, is another example of a Latter Rain influenced school. *Pincrest Bible School in upstate New York. Founded by Wade Taylor and Bill Britton *Destiny Image Publications, while founded long after the Latter Rain, prints sympathetic titles by Joyner, Hamon, Taylor and others.
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As the list above demonstrates, the movement itself should be distinguished from those whom it ultimately influenced. Some branches of the movement ultimately led to cult like groups, some parts of the movement remained orthodox and also true to Latter Rain ideal, and other parts of the movement moderated the doctrine and ultimately had positive effects on the Charismatic and Pentecostal churches at large.

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Historically, some of the most ardent critics of the Latter Rain and its offshoot theology, the Manifest Sons of God have come from within the Pentecostalism. ( BUT THAT IS WHERE THE DEVIL WORKS MOST OFTEN TOO)

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With time however, the Charismatic and Pentecostal movements, while rejecting the more extreme elements of the theology, have been greatly influenced by other aspects such as the “fivefold” ministry and the laying on of hands.

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More recently, it has been those from Fundamentalist circles who have been the most severe critics of the Latter Rain, and have use various loose connections to the movement to paint everyone associated with a negative brush.

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When its proponents brought the new doctrine into the Pentecostal Churches and in particular the Assemblies of God it nearly split the church. Leaders of the Assemblies of God were concerned that it glorified men among other things and pointed to the “ye are gods” as evidence of severe theological error. They were also concerned that the movement espoused a post-millennial rather than premillennial scenario of the “End Times.” In 1949 the Assemblies of God condemned the doctrine of the ‘Latter Rain Movement’ as heresy.( So what!)

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The Latter Rain brought in a new focus on the spiritual elements of Christianity including personal prophecy and typological interpretation of Scripture. The term “Latter Rain” stems from Bible passages as Jeremiah 3:3 and 5:2, Joel 2:23, Hosea 6:3, Zechariah 10:1, and James 5:7. The idea of a “Latter Rain” was not new to the movement, but in fact was present from the earliest days of Pentecostalism, who believed at the time that return of speaking in tongues and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit marked the “Latter Rain” of God’s Spirit, near the end of history.

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Beliefs

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It is difficult to communicate the Latter Rain through reference to doctrine alone, because its most distinctive element is its spiritual atmosphere. Once one understands this basic point, it is easy to identify within the Pentecostal movement who has been impacted by the Latter Rain, and to what degree. Latter Rain proponents saw Pentecostalism as very dry in the post-war period, and in danger of slipping into a dry or mental formalism like many of their evangelical peers. When the Latter Rain hit the dryness was replaced with an almost hyper-spirituality, and the various doctrines lined up this basic idea.
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* The latter rain. The movement derives its name from its interpretation of Joel 2:23. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost had been the “former rain” that established the Church, but the current “move” of the Spirit was the “latter rain” that would bring the Church’s work to completion, and culminate in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, which was imminent. Although this doctrine in itself had been around since Parham and the early Pentecostals, the Latter Rain broke with the dispensationalism which had become entrenched in Pentecostalism. Whereas dispensationalism is a pessimistic premillennialism, the Latter Rain emphasized victory. This led to various expressions of victorious minded premillennialism and ultimately postmillennialism. Rather than just try and save a few souls before rise of the anti-Christ, the Latter Rain emphasized the Church as overcoming and victorious. This shift alone is extremely significant and can be seen behind the Word of Faith movement, as well as most branches of the Charismatic movement.
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* Christian Unity. A major theme of the Latter Rain was unity among the believers, in the church service, in the geographic region, and at large. They taught that God saw the church organized not into denominational camps, but along geographical lines. They expected that in the coming last days, the various Christian denominations would dissolve, and the true church would coalesce into citywide churches under the leadership of the newly-restored apostles and prophets. This theme was recurrent among the Kansas City Prophets of the 1980s.
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* Laying on of hands. Unlike mainstream Pentecostalism, which holds that the baptism of the Holy Spirit usually comes after prolonged “tarrying” or waiting for the Spirit, the Latter Rain movement taught that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit can be imparted on one believer by another through the laying on of hands. This impartation was not given to the body at large, but to specifically selected or qualified leaders.
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* The fivefold ministry. The Latter Rain taught that of the five ministerial roles mentioned in Ephesians 4:11 (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher), the foundational roles of apostle and prophet had been lost after the time of the first apostles, but God was restoring these ministries in the present day. This theme has continued to this day, and has been recently rebranded by C. Peter Wagner as the “New Apostolic Reformation”
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* The Manifest(ed) Sons of God. Some leaders of the Latter Rain movement taught that as the end of the age approached, a select group of “overcomers” would arise within the Church. These Manifest Sons of God would receive the “spiritual bodies” mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15. They would become immortal, and receive a number of divine gifts, including the ability to change their physical appearance, to speak any language, to teleport from place to place, and to perform divine healings and other miracles. They would complete the Great Commission, spreading the gospel throughout the world, and at last usher in the millennial reign of Christ.
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See also

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External links

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Books

*Pentecostal scholar Richard Riss wrote a master’s Thesis on the Latter Rain, which was repackaged as a book entitled “The Latter Rain” and is available from Honeycomb Visual Productions in Canada. This book is supportive of the movement. It is one of the few scholarly works available on the topic. *Reg Layzell, The Pastor’s Pen (Vancouver, British Columbia: Mission Publishing, 1965) *Dick Iverson. The Journey, A Lifetime of Prophetic Moments (Portland, OR: Bible Temple Publishing, 1995) *Stanley Frodsham “With Signs Following”
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PRAY HONESTLY ALWAYS  AND ASK GOD  FIRST TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH
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What the Bible says about Israel and the Church, one in history and prophecy

(Mat 23:37 KJV)  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.  24:1  And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple. 2  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 

Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. (Romans 10:1-2)
  
“Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it  necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all  delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out  for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
 
-Jude 1:3-4  “I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to  a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert  the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you  than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say  again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be  accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased  men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.” -Gal 1:6-10
 
And do you have one, one New Testament verse that confirms Israel’s present return and possession of the Promised land. I am not aware of one, If you do which one is it?  It is unbelievable, undeniable  that the professing Christian people who do not know the Bible can be so easily deceived, led astray too by many others, bad pastors and Jewish persons, Zionists included..  We can all easily know that the Jews had revolted. despised God  and helped to kill their own Messiah Jesus Christ now as well, so their temple was destroyed and they were scattered world wide. Deuteronomy 28:64 “Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods–gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.” and no return was promsed the third time and why?  http://mccainvrsobama.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/even-as-to-the-promised-land/
 
Too many fundamentals, professing Christians now falsely do ste that the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 was prophesied in Scripture while there is no direct support of this in the New Testament Bible even still. Zionism, on the other hand, “is a secularist, largely atheistic ideology” that emerged in the late 19th century. God still does not require the human input to fulfill his own prophecies. Now too many Christian Zionists, extremists do falsely do now believe that in order to fulfill all of the Biblical prophecy, Israel must next conquer most of the Middle East. And anyone watched the mostly self centered, get richer TV evangelists such as a Pat Robertson or John Hagee and their distorted sermons scenarios involving the future “Rapture,” Jesus Christ and also Israel, should also quickly firstly now realize that these false prophets are not only fleecing, scaring their flock to give more money but falsely are into worshipping the false idol of Israel. .John Hagee pays himself over a million dollars a year in TAX FREE money while having several palaces to live in, like the $2.1 million 7,969-acre ranch outside Brackettville, Texas , with five lodges, including a “main lodge” and a gun locker.;Once considered a small marginal doctrine among evangelicals, the false dispensationalist theology of Christian Zionism has greatly escalated, ironically falsely with the help of jess, Messianic Jews, Judaizers and many others too. The reality still is that the parable of the vineyard (Matt 21:33-43) clearly shows that the Christian Church totally now rather succumbs all of the past promises made to Israel. Be careful about accepting anyone’s word about Christian Zionism do first read the Bible, New Testament for yourself and know the truth rather. http://witnessed.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/the-2-promised-returns/
 
Let them firstly look at their own scriptures..
   
Be strong and courageous, because you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their forefathers to give them. (Joshua 1,6)
 
 
(Deu 4:23 KJV)  Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. 24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. 25  When thou shalt beget children, and children’s children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger: 26  I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. 27  And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. 28  And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. 29   But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. 30  When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; 31   (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.   
 (Deu 28:1 KJV)  And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
(Deu 28:15 KJV)  But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:…. (Deu 28:33 KJV)  The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway:.. (Deu 28:48 KJV)  Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee… (Deu 28:52 KJV)  And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee… (Deu 28:63 KJV)  And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it… (Deu 28:66 KJV)  And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

So Joshua took the entire land, just as the LORD had directed Moses, and he gave it as an inheritance to Israel according to their tribal divisions. Then the land had rest from war. (Joshua 11,23)

You gave them kingdoms and nations, allotting to them even the remotest frontiers… You made their sons as numerous as the stars in the sky, and you brought them into the land that you told their fathers to enter and possess. (Nehemiah 9,22-23) 
  
So the LORD gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their forefathers, and they took possession of it and settled there. The LORD gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their forefathers. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the LORD handed all their enemies over to them. Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to the house of Israel failed; every one was fulfilled. (Joshua 21,43-45)
 
Now who can falsely say that God’s promises to Israel have not yet been fulfilled? http://www.christianzionism.org/BibleSays/Sizer01.asp
  
“Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,  do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: that the God of our  Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the  knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is  the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what  is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at  His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and  dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.”
-Eph 1:15-21
                  
Unanswered Questions? Or is the answer undeniable, too obvious?Why is there such a close relationship today between the Christian Right, the American political establishment and the State of Israel? Why after 40 years, does Israel continue to occupy territory in Lebanon (the Sheba Farms), Syria (the Golan Heights) and Palestine (the West Bank) while Syria has been pressured to withdraw from Lebanon? Why is Israel allowed to retain nuclear weapons while Iran is threatened with a pre-emptive attack for aspiring to obtain nuclear technology? And how have Britain and America become the focus of so much hate in the Arab world and the target for Islamic terrorism – despite out commitment to the rule of international law, democracy and human rights?

Christian Zionism is undoubtedly a dominant force shaping US foreign policy in the Middle East.

The Pew Research Centre recently discovered that 60% of evangelicals said they supported the state of Israel,  and 32% cited their religious beliefs as the primary reason for such support. But does the Bible support the Sate of Israel existence today?

Discovering what the Bible actually, truly  now has to say about the relationship between Israel and the Church, in history and prophecy, more then just an academic exercise.

 

Did the coming of Jesus, his death and resurrection and the founding of the Church, fulfill or postpone the past biblical prophecies concerning Israel? Is the Church central to God’s purposes on earth, or merely a temporary side show?

Covenantalism or Dispensationalism?

 
Covenantalists tend to see the coming of Jesus as the fulfillment of the promises made to Israel while dispensationalists tend to see it as the postponement of those promises.

Covenantalists believe the Bible teaches that God has one ‘chosen people’ called out from among the nations. Dispensationalists believe the Bible teaches that God has two separate and distinct peoples – the Church and Israel.

If Covenantalists emphasize the continuity within God’s progressive revelation, Dispensationalists emphasize the discontinuity, distinguishing seven ‘dispensations’ in biblical history when God has tested mankind in a different way, and each time they have failed.

Covenantalists tend to regard promises relating to the Land, Jerusalem and the temple as annulled or fulfilled in the Church. Dispensationalists tend to see them as still in force and either being, or about to be, fulfilled in Israel today.
 
Covenantalists tend to be neutral or positive about the future before the return of Jesus being either amillennial or postmillennial. Dispensationalists tend to be premillennial and pessimistic about the future.
 
I believe the dispensational framework has been artificially imposed on the Scriptures creating divisions that are not there and ignoring those that are there.
 
Judaism is a religious system. Israel is a sovereign nation. Zionism is a political system. These three are not synonymous.
  
I respect Judaism, repudiate anti-Semitism, encourage interfaith dialogue and defend Israel’s right to exist within borders recognised by the international community and agreed with her neighbours. But like many Jews, I disagree with a political system which gives preference to expatriate Jews born elsewhere in the world, while denying the same rights to the Arab Palestinians born in the country itself. Jimmy Carter is not alone in describing the Zionism practiced by the present government of Israel as a form of apartheid.

The apostle Peter, preaching after Pentecost, and citing Moses, similarly warned those who rejected Jesus, “Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.” (Acts 3:23). Covenantalists believe there has only ever been one people of God – whether under the old or new covenant – and one way to God – by Jesus, grace alone and through faith alone.

Most of the Jews even today  and the Judaizers have refused God plan through the ages , that of Jesus being the messiah and they continue on with their own earthly, fleshly replacement, earthly goals, plans.
 
Yes, we must read the Bible literally. We must also read the Bible contextually.  We must read the Bible progressively. The Holy Spirit inspired the Bible, and he needs to teach it to us, not some mere man or women, and Jesus is still the center of all prophecies, and not mankind or the Jews. (Rev 19:10 KJV)  And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Even the Apostles didn’t always do this straight away. They brought their Jewish presuppositions with them which sometimes falsely colored their hopes and expectations.

We too need the same illuminating work of the Holy Spirit as we read the Bible, to see the harmony and progression in God’s purposes. But to do that we need to pray and ask God to teach us and to also still read the Bible ourselves now.. not wrongfully let someone else supposedly read and interpret the Bible for us.
 
(2 Tim 2:15 KJV)  Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16    But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

It is also this still important to rightfully also distinguishes, properly interpreting the valid prophetic and apocalyptic scriptures since  prophetic messages often differs from  the apocalyptic  messages. Sometimes Biblical books contain both the prophetic and the apocalyptic. The Book of Revelation is one example Prophetic and  apocalyptic literature like Revelation should be interpreted in harmony with the teachings of the entire Bible
 
Now there are two basic errors ultra-literalists make regarding the prophetic and apocalyptic literature: First, they ignore the historical setting of the passages and the way in which they have already been fulfilled. Second, they read back into the passages contemporary events and develop novel ways to interpret them as if they were speaking of present day readers. This heresy is not new.

Jesus and the apostles tell us quite plainly that some parts of the Hebrew Scriptures have been fulfilled, annulled or superseded.  The question is therefore not whether the promises of the Old Testament should be understood literally or allegorically. It is instead a question of whether they should be understood in terms of Old Covenant ‘shadow’ or in terms of New Covenant ‘reality’. 
 
When Christian writers forcefully interpret contemporary events in the light of prophecy, they run into errors and difficulties. For example,
– Hal Lindsey insisted that Russia’s place in history was predicted in the Bible but as Russia power declined, Lindsey switched his emphasis to Islamic Fundamentalism
-Traditionally some have held the view  ‘Babylon the Great’ (Revelation 14:8 and 17:5), variously interpreted as the Roman Empire, the Vatican, and the European Community. – but too many now  switched their Biblical  interpretations,  emphasis to Iraq,  Babylon being  rebuilt before the final battle of Armageddon  and who knows what to next?

The superficial appeal of these kind of interpretations are mostly  short-lived as the wreckage of previous false Prophetic claims do now testify evidentially.

For ultra-literalists, too often  the biblical text seems to need a little false personal adding to the word of God,  ‘enhancing’ to make their interpretation more obvious.  Ultra-literalists have perpetuated the false principle of ‘enhancing’ the text to reinforce their own mostly false interpretations. While the ultra-literalists Dispensationalist Bible Scholars claim to provide ‘consistent interpretation’, they nonetheless reach very different conclusions, meaning they rarely agree with each other, and even contradict each other mostly still.
 
Continued.. read these References 
  
For the Love of Zion (the Bible tells them so) (Seminar 1/5), by Dr. Stephen Sizer  Why is there such a close relationship today between the Christian Right, the American political establishment and the State of Israel? Why after 40 years, does Israel continue to occupy territory in Lebanon (the Sheba Farms), Syria (the Golan Heights) and Palestine (the West Bank) while Syria has been pressured to withdraw from Lebanon? Why is Israel allowed to retain nuclear weapons while Iran is threatened with a pre-emptive attack for aspiring to obtain nuclear technology? And how have Britain and America become the focus of so much hate in the Arab world and the target for Islamic terrorism – despite out commitment to the rule of international law, democracy and human rights? The answers to these questions remain inexplicable unless we factor in what is now probably the most influential and controversial movement amongst Christians today – Christian Zionism. Full Article Here
http://www.cc-vw.org/articles/zcs1.pdf
 
Israel and the Church: Who are God’s Chosen People? (Seminar 2/5), by Dr. Stephen Sizer  How often have you heard the Jewish people described as God’s ‘chosen people’? Probably so often that you have never even questioned it. It is so ingrained that to deny it is often seen as evidence of anti-Semitism. As is the assumption that God blesses and curses nations on the basis of how they treat Israel – which is sometimes used as a threat. This view goes back to Genesis 12:3. Jerry Falwell, for example, says God is blessing America because ‘America has been kind to the Jew.’1 He claims that God ‘will bless those who bless the Jews and curse whoever curses the Jews.’2 That is why Christians United or Israel conducts ‘a Night to Honor Israel’3 in as many cities as possible so that God will continue to bless America and Canada.
 
It may surprise you to discover that the New Testament never uses the term ‘chosen’ to describe the Jewish people. It is only used of those who follow Jesus. Does that mean God has two separate ‘chosen people’? Some like to think so. They are usually called ‘dispensationalists’ and this is a popular viewpoint among evangelicals in the United States.
In this chapter we will begin by looking at the evidence for two ‘chosen people’ and then tackle the ‘blessing and cursing’ issue. Then we will examine the term ‘Israel’ in the Old and New Testament. We shall then consider some of the biblical imagery God uses to describe his relationship to his people such as the analogy of the vine and the vineyard. We also need to define what we mean by words like ‘Jew’, ‘chosen’ and ‘children of God’. Full Article Here
http://www.cc-vw.org/articles/zcs2.pdf

The Promised Land – From the Nile to the Euphrates? (Seminar 3/5), by Dr. Stephen Sizer  In this chapter we will consider what the Bible has to say about the significance and purposes of the Promised Land as well its geographical extent. Then we will look at whether the land was intended as an ‘everlasting possession’ of the Jewish people or whether they were only temporary residents. Then we will examine the terms under which they were allowed to return after the exile, and whether the kingdom was nationalistic or universal. Finally we must consider what Jesus and the apostles have to say about all this. Full Article Here
http://www.cc-vw.org/articles/zcs3.pdf

Battle for Jerusalem: The Eternal Capital of the Jews? (Seminar 4/5), by Dr. Stephen Sizer  Many evangelicals, especially in America, accept unthinkingly the Zionist mantra that Jerusalem is the undivided, eternal and exclusive capital of the State of Israel. However, Jerusalem existed before the time of the Israelites. Today, Jerusalem lies at the heart of three world faiths – Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Israelis regard it as their capital. Palestinians do so also. Attempts to reach agreement in the wider Arab-Israeli conflict have partly stumbled over the contested status of Jerusalem. Jewish Zionists and their Christian supporters are strongly opposed to joint sovereignty or the recognition of East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine. It seems time is on their side. The annexation of the Old City, the aggressive and illegal settlement programme, the systematic demolition of many Arab homes and the construction of the Separation Barrier have all created ‘facts on the ground’ in Jerusalem. Christian and Jewish Zionists also claim a higher mandate for this agenda – the Word of God.  Full Article Here
http://www.cc-vw.org/articles/zcs4.pdf
The Coming Last Day’s Temple – Ready to Rebuild? (Seminar 5/5), by Dr. Stephen Sizer Just 500 metres by 300 metres, the Temple Mount, or Haram Al Sharif as it is called in Arabic, is probably the most disputed plot of land on earth. Hal Lindsey claims, ‘I believe the fate of the world will be determined by an ancient feud over 35 acres of land.’  Many Christians share the belief that the Islamic shrines must be destroyed and that a Jewish Temple must and will be rebuilt – very soon. But this won’t be a museum replica of the one king Solomon built or be just another attraction for pilgrims to the Holy Land. No, this Temple will be built for one purpose and one purpose only – for bloody animal sacrifices, and lots of them. In this chapter we want to explore the case for rebuilding the Jewish Temple; consider whether the Bible predicts such an event; and if so, where and how it might be built. We will then look at what the New Testament has to say on the subject and some of the implications for Christianity should the Jewish Temple be rebuilt. Finally, we will reveal that the Temple is actually under construction (but don’t peep). http://www.cc-vw.org/articles/zcs5.pdf
do see also http://www.cc-vw.org/articles/zcs6.pdf   Overture to Armageddon: Want to be Left Behind?
Christian Zionists of the Dispensationalist variety tend to make absolute claims for their interpretation of key biblical texts. What serious students of the Bible have long known, however, is that there are different ways of reading the same texts. This is particularly true of the more difficult passages of scripture related to the Second Coming of Christ. Click on the article title to go directly to the full article, or on the author’s name to go to a summary/lead-in 
 
  
Article Title Author
An Alternative Evangelical Reading of Scripture Burge, Gary M, PhD
The Land in the New Testament Devenish, David
Distinction Between Israel and the Church Gerstner, John
Christ is Coming? Christ is Here! Moody, Stan
The Meaning of the Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 12) Sizer, Stephen
For the Love of Zion: The Bible tells them so. (Seminar 1/5) Sizer, Stephen
Israel and the Church: Who are God’s chosen people? (Seminar 2/5) Sizer, Stephen
The Promised Land: From the Nile to the Euphrates? (Seminar 3/5) Sizer, Stephen
Battle for Jerusalem: The Eternal Capital of the Jews? (Seminar 4/5) Sizer, Stephen
The Coming Last Day’s Temple: Ready to Rebuild? (Seminar 5/5) Sizer, Stephen
The Rapture? (I Thessalonians 4: 15-18) Swire, Father Daniel
The Use of Scripture in Christian Zionism: a critical examination Tilling, Chris
Christian Approaches to the State of Israel Wilson, John M.
  
Summaries

The Land in the New Testament, by David Devenish What does the New Testament teach about the land of Israel? Answer: absolutely nothing. There are no references to the importance of the land or of Jerusalem as a ‘holy city’. Some would say that this is simply an argument from silence and that there are sufficient promises in the Old Testament to establish the land as belonging to the Jewish people without the need for New Testament confirmation. However, not only is there silence about the land but the whole tenor of the New Testament message and revelation of God’s saving purpose amongst His people points in a different direction.  To a Samaritan, despised by the Jews, Jesus makes special places of worship (including Jerusalem) a redundant concept (John 4:21). When marveling at the faith of a Gentile centurion, Jesus applied to the gathering in of Gentile peoples from all over the world the Old Testament promises of the bringing of God’s people from the east and west into the promised blessings alongside Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Matt. 8:11).   

An Alternative Evangelical Reading of Scripture, By Gary M Burge, PhD In Genesis 12, 15 and 17 God promises the Holy Land to Abraham and his descendents. To Christian Zionists this promise of land inheritance was permanent and unconditional. And it is as true in Biblical times as it is today. This means that for Christian Zionists, the covenant of Abraham continues to be in play today . And as Christians this forces them to have what we call a “two covenant” theology: one covenant for the Jews and one for Christians operates in the church. In a word, the work of Christ does not replace or supplant the Jewish covenant. Reformed theologians (like myself) believe that something decisive happened in Christ. His covenant affected not simply the covenant of Moses – making a new and timeless form of salvation – but it also affected every Jewish covenant, including Abraham’s covenant. Christ fulfills the expectations of Jewish covenant life and renews the people of God rooted in the OT and Judaism. Thus Jesus is a new temple, the new Israel, there are 12 tribes/apostles, etc.
 
The Dispensational Distinction Between Israel and the Church, by John Gerstner  Perhaps the central doctrine of dispensationalism is the distinction between Israel and the church. Dispensationalism sees Israel as an earthly people with earthly promises, and the church as a heavenly people with heavenly promises. Membership in Israel is by natural birth.15 One enters the church by supernatural birth. Dispensationalists view Israel and the church as having distinct eternal destinies. Israel will receive an eternal earthly Kingdom, and the church an eternal heavenly Kingdom. Darby, the father of dispensationalism, stated the distinction in the clearest of terms: “The Jewish nation is never to enter the church.”16
Ryrie considers this the most important dispensational distinction, and approves the statement that… “the basic promise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity.”17 In contrast, Christian theology has always maintained the essential continuity of Israel and the church. The elect of all the ages are seen as one people, with one Savior, one destiny. This continuity can be shown by examining a few Old Testament prophesies with their fulfillment. Dispensationalists admit that if the church can be shown to be fulfilling promises made to Israel their system is doomed. If the church is fulfilling Israel’s promises as contained in the new covenant or anywhere in the Scriptures, then [dispensational] premillennialism is condemned.18
  

Christ is Coming?  Christ is here!, by Stan Moody, PhD, To properly study Christian Zionism, it is critical to examine certain presuppositions. Universally accepted among Evangelicals is the dogma that Christ’s so-called Second Coming will be personal, corporeal and visible. Once we begin from that premise, there is no alternative than to ask, “Where?” and “When?” The “How” and “Why” become subordinate.  Thus, all our time is spent on the timing and locus of the event rather than on its nature. Even efforts to counter the extremism of Christian Zionism emanate from the assumption that Jesus has to return at some concrete/specific, cataclysmic moment in human history to rescue the world from the weight of its own sin. An inconvenient truth is that this was the mission of the First Advent. Men of Galilee, why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven (Acts 1:11 NIV). For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ (Titus 2:11-13 NASV).

The Meaning of the Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 12), by Dr. Stephen Sizer  We must begin our consideration of the Abrahamic Covenant not in Genesis 12 but Genesis 2. The covenant began with Gods creation of a paradise, represented in the garden. This was the place where people could receive all of God’s blessings and commune in fellowship with Him. This is where the image of land begins in the Bible. This land of paradise was lost in the Fall but a foretaste of heaven is reflected in the imagery of the promise made to Abraham.
The Lord had said to Abram, “Leave your country, your people and your father’s household and go to the land I will show you. (Genesis 12:1)  When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless. I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers”. Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.” (Genesis 17:1-8)

The Rapture? (I Thessalonians 4: 15-18), by Father Daniel Swire The doctrine of a “Rapture” does not originate in the book of the Revelation. The word “rapture” is not actually found anywhere in any English translations of the Bible. It comes from the Latina word, rapere, which is is usually translated “caught up” in the English translations of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.   Here is what we read in I Thessalonians 4: 15-18: For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18)

The use of Scripture in Christian Zionism: a critical examination, by Chris Tilling In the next few posts I shall discuss the handling of Scripture in Christian Zionism (CZ). I will suggest it is marked by a proof-texting mentality that not only misunderstands the nature of biblical prophecy, but also displays a naïve and inconsistent hermeneutic. In a later post in this series I’ll also suggest why this subject isn’t merely a theological curiosity – and something best left alone – but impacts world politics. In fact, I suggest it also negatively distracts discipleship to Jesus and thus needs to be challenged. And the use of Scripture in Christian Zionism gets right to the heart of the problem, hence the focus of this small series.

Christian Approaches to the State of Israel, by John M Wilson Jews have an ongoing role in the furthering of God’s ultimate redemptive purposes. But no matter what standard or position one adopts, Christians must not be blind to Joseph Klausner’s objection that Christianity has sought to remove the national and political aspects of the prophetic hope (The Messianic Idea in Israel, p. 10). God works through the sacred and the secular. . . .[I]f God can call a pagan Persian named Cyrus ‘his anointed’ (Isa. 45:1), and another pagan king, Nebuchadnezzar, ‘my servant’ (Jer. 25:9), and accomplish his holy purposes among the nations through both, who can say what plans God may yet have in store for those who from of old have been his people? (ibid, p. 268). Real estate theology is, at best, precarious theology. . . .For centuries Jews suffered discrimination and victimization at the hands of Christians whose theological convictions seemed to permit [encourage] such unjust activity. . . .Therefore, we conclude, as long as Arabs and Jews argue from nonnegotiable theological absolutes, human beings can offer little hope for peace

 
There actually is no Biblical promised prophecy, a promised second return of the Jews to Israel in the Old Testament or next in the whole Bible now too.  after Israel’s, Jews   second dispersion from Israel by the Romans in 70 ad.. . Not even one New testament Bible verse even for even the Jewish return in 1948..  Do now try prove me wrong..
It is unbelievable, undeniable  that the professing Christian people who do not know the Bible can be so easily deceived, led astray too by many others, pastors and Jewish persons, Zionists included.. And had most people most Christians read the Bible for themselves they would have known the whole truth and would not have been  so easily misled by others. 
 
see also