Virgin Mary

Saturday Topic: Truth and Christianity by TTM

thenonconformer said, Not all Catholics deny worshipping Mary as part of the Godhead…

June 23, 2008 at 2:49 am


I am really having a hard time trying to understand what part Mary the mother of Jesus and others, whose husband was Joseph, has in a discussion of the trinity.. The trinity trio of the god head, new testament clearly excludes her and always has. She Mary was not present at man and earth’s creation or present during the period of old testament now too and according to the Bible undeniably too! The catholic expounded definition of virgin Mary is clearly a false add on to the Bible, New testament.

– 5 percent of Christians only read their Bible daily, 25 percent of church Christians at the most are really born again too, 70 percent of evangelical pastors are unchristian.. 50 percent of all once loudly professing Christians next give up or sell their faith too. reality, (had they stayed in God’s word they would have been great saints, but it was the devil who discouraged them away..) and it is not what you know that counts but how much of the Bible that you actually practice in love too now that counts. Sadly undeniably most pastors who firstly should above all others they do not pray even one hour a day or read their Bible one hour a day so no wonder they are embossed also in bulling, abuses, controversies, adultery, cheating, lying, stealing, divorce.

“Felicity Hangnail: Part of the painful tragedy you mentioned happened because some authorities in the RC Church in Quebec did not follow the directions from Rome in accepting candidates for priesthood, letting some wolves in as a result. But then there was also the case when Christ meant nothing to some people’s lives. When salt loses its taste, it is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.”

– The other day I went to visit a local evangelical church, and when I got there the doors was close, even though the sign posted there had said services at 6.00 pm so it appears that they had switched to 7.00 pm services and no one had bothered to change the sign, either cause they did not care about any new visitors or ?? That was the same church where the senior pastor would not talk to me, say hello to me on the street as well..

– >> We have seen over 5000 people trained in 80 days in evangelism – the real deal gospel and we want our nation to see a great harvest.

Now I have seen 3 separate great active evangelical pushes in 3 separate denominations firsthand, the Baptist and the Pentecostal, Alliance ones included.. but what had rightfully concerned me still was the serious leader’s, elders personal immorality and corruption within these churches, which any evangelical outreach still did not deal with! Preaching the Gospel is still not an acceptable alternative to living it. “So in one of the churches the evangelical Baptist outreach leader had sexually propositioned me even.. me a married man, and the pastor had counseled my wife to divorce me, and in the Pentecostal church the outreach pastor had counseled my wife to divorce me as well, in the process the church pastors were stealing money, abusing funds etc..” what were these churches now converting people to in reality? Unacceptable religious abuse. Churches should be sanctuaries .. not prisons. Faith should be the ultimate freedom .. not the ultimate trap.. ( It seems even the bad evangelicals do behave like the bad catholics.. really here there is little differences)

>>Mary is not a person of the Trinity, if that is what you mean. She does have a very special relationship with the three persons of the Trinity, however. She is:
1. Daughter of the Father ( and I am a son too)
2. Mother of the Son ( She is not my mother)
3. Spouse of the Holy Spirit ( and of Joseph)

>>Have you read my latest post on The Blessed Virgin Mary?

rather have you even fully read the Bible is firstly more applicable Question.. not rather the man made commentaries..

And yes I have often read the Catholic version that Mary now is part of the deity of God.. ridiculous.

Have you not noticed how rarely both Catholics,  and evangelicals, do refer to the Bible, rather they like to speak their own views, opinions of other men.. interesting!



Diverting back wrongfully the topic discussion and  your personal insulting derogatory remarks is not the right approach from anyone too especially now since you know still nothing about me or my views.. and it does continue to reflect poorly on you still too…even your typical unChristlike   derogatory and insulting remarks, bulling Reponses,  self righteous, a superiority attitude. and what else?
Totally undeniably especially on the net Virgin Mary is projected as a God and not rather truly as my sister in Christ. 
This personal ACT of yours is also a poor example of  any type of professing Christian for all to see on the net.
(Mat 7:16 KJV)  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
(Mat 7:17 KJV)  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
(Mat 7:18 KJV)  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
(1 Cor 8:1 KJV)  Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
(1 Cor 13:1 KJV)  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
(1 Cor 13:2 KJV)  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
(1 Cor 13:3 KJV)  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
(1 Cor 13:4 KJV)  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
(1 Cor 13:8 KJV)  Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
(1 Cor 13:13 KJV)  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
(Col 3:14 KJV)  And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
(1 Tim 4:12 KJV)  but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
(2 Tim 2:22 KJV)  Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
(1 Pet 4:8 KJV)  And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
(1 Pet 5:14 KJV)  Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.
(2 Pet 1:7 KJV)  And to godliness ( add) brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
 (Rev 2:4 KJV)  Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
(Rev 3:19 KJV)  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
(1 John 4:12 KJV)    If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

 WOW! I too would rightfully see a sermon from even you  than hypocritically only hear it preached again.. time you firstly had applied the Bible yourself for all to see.


 Here is a tip to understanding me better, more easier, simply too… when some do people fight- the bullies, abusers, slanderers, liars, they next generally expect, do want, demand  the rest of us to take sides,  even in their ungodly, unholy wars amongst these undeniably unforgiving Baptists, Pentecostals, Catholics, etc., even the wars even on the net too..I refuse truly to take to take any of their sides, for there is no adequate justifications for their war mongering, fights, absues, and for me they rightfully, clearly now  are both in the wrong,  and they  all firstly should repent now.They all, can  and will know we are Christians by how we love one another, not by our mere words, or our immoral acts in our doctrinal disputes.
Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.


 see also




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I am a Canadian, retired and I do have an Engineering degree, from Concordia University , Montreal 1968, plus I had also now worked as a Re/Max Realtor in Calgary too. I follow Jesus, as per Matthew 2:37 The Old covenant from God is only to the Jews, Israel. Now I am very heatedly involved in both Christianity and politics as well and I am very popular for my Graphic sites. I have Pastored a Church or a few years and have dealt with many many politicians. I am a moderator on two Donald trump political sites on Google+ : Liberty Price, and PRESIDENT TRUMP My own most Popular face book sites are My own most Popular wordpress sites are Canadian Politics American Politics Christian Topics About the Messianic Jews Ocean City, New Jersey USA caribbean-cruise Google Plus I am also a Conversation starter, 1/ 45 most popular posters the last month President Donald J. Trump Supporters Group!

6 thoughts on “Virgin Mary”


    ” We have been over and over this, you must at least know that we would have no proper understanding of the Trinity and Incarnation without both Scripture and Ecumenical Council, and that also means the Apostolic Church! ”

    “almost universal acceptance of Mary’s continuing virginity, and their widespread reluctance to declare Mary a sinner”. “Mary was declared the Theotokos – the Mother God, from here all her and our blessings flow…the Incarnate Christ!”


    “Why is it so necessary to believe that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life? James was the brother of Jesus. That is clear from scripture. In Matthew 1:25, we see that Joseph ‘had no union with her (Mary) until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.’ This tells us that once she gave birth to a son, Joseph did have union with Mary.”


    Hebrews 1:2 (New American Standard Bible) 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

    “And the Lord Jesus was believed on way before Mary was ever born.

    ” Mary was not at all a “perpetual virgin”. Scripture is clear, that Joseph only kept her a virgin till Jesus was born.

    Matthew 1:24-25 (New American Standard Bible)

    24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,

    25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

    No Joseph did not die never having slept with Mary, he slept with her, they had sexual intercourse, after Jesus left her womb. Everyone who saw Jesus in flesh knew there were other men born from the womb of Mary after Him.

    Matthew 12:47 (New American Standard Bible)

    47 Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”

    Mary was BORN DEGENERATE IN SIN JUST LIKE THE REST OF US. By her faith she was found righteous, as are all who are saved by grace through faith on the Lord Jesus.

    The Lord Jesus forbids veneration of the woman He saved named Mary. ”

    “And even the claim “mother of Jesus” is much broader than Mary.

    Matthew 12:48-50 (New American Standard Bible)

    48 But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?”

    49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers!

    50 “For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

    ” Mary is NOT the “mother” of the church.

    John 19:25-27 (New American Standard Bible)

    25 Therefore the soldiers did these things. But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

    26 When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!”

    27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household. ”

    “Notice Jesus addressed Mary as WOMAN, not “mother” and made it clear John was to be the one to care for her as a son would his own mother.

    There is no “mystery” to explore here, it’s clear. Some are falsely granting deity to Mary.”

    God does not have a mother. My God existed before Mary, made the planet Mary walked on and used her to bring forth the Son of God in flesh, the One through whom it was all made and she served Him as a humble servant, because He saved her degenerate soul from her sins. Just as He saved me from my own and saves all who call on Him in truth.

    “Is the perpetual virginity of Mary Biblical?”

    “Mary nor Herod has anything to do with Rev.12. It is speaking on Israel and the anti-christ.”

    “She is the mother of Jesus and that is all she is. She bares no other importanance except to those who worship her. But we choose to worship God alone. ”

    ” Did the Son of God exists before Mary, yes or no?

    Because if God in all His persons existed before Mary, He is her God, but she carries no special motherly weight with God. Unless considering Matthew 12:48-50, which I’ve already pointed out. Meaning Mary is no more significant than any other follower of Jesus Christ. God is God and Mary is a servant as is anyone else that follows Him. Mary, a degenerate soul that was in need of a savior and God used her for His purpose. This does not mean we go venerating the tool used. Again, Jesus Himself forbid such, Luke 11:27-28.”

    ” The Son of God existed before Mary, so Mary is His servant, not His mother.”

    Mary ” She was just a vessel as we all are. Deserving no glory for her part in his birth. When we do things for God do we deserve a pat of the back, or are we simply being obedient? Mary knew her place, but some have made her into an item of worship. Even Mary understood all glory, honor and praise belong to God and not her. Bottom line; honoring her is idol worship. An idol set up in the heart that is robbing God of the praise He deserves. It is man made doctrine.”
    Claiming Mary is the “mother of God” is simply false teaching, that you’ve inherited from the cult of Mary, Roman Catholicism. So you follow their same false figures and give them similar status, which scripture does not affirm.

    She was the mother of Jesus as James and others were His brothers in a biological sense of His humanity, nothing more. Not and never “mother of God”. Joseph was not the step-father of God either.

    No where in the book of Hebrews is Mary attributed the title “mother of God”. Nowhere in the entire Bible of 66 books, the real scriptures.

    God is Spirit.

    John 4:24 (New American Standard Bible)

    24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    This renders your claims of Mary being the mother of God an impossibility.

    Mary was a slave to Christ as are all who follow Him, Ephesians 6:6.

    Again your creeds mean nothing, you’ve got no scripture to affirm your “mother of God” nonsense.

    She was just a vessel as all are.”

    ” Christ pre-existed Mary. God made Mary, Mary is not the mother of God. She was a vessel, not mother of God.

    Mary was not raised to Heaven full body like Christ. Christ rose on the 3rd day, Mary’s body won’t rise till with the rest of the dead in Christ.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16 (New American Standard Bible)

    16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

    Mary’s body has not yet been changed.

    1 Corinthians 15:50-52 (New American Standard Bible)

    50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

    51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

    52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

    “Minister Patrick Williams, you’ve offered them the truth. I’ve offered them the truth. Job offered them the truth. Fran offered them the truth. Alias offered them the truth.” what a perverted reply. Virgin Mary, no longer a virgin too is my sister in Christ and she is still just that only!


  2. Fact or Fiction; Scripture or Tradition?

    The following is an examination of fifteen of the most often used arguments by Roman Catholic adherents in their defense of their near deification of Mary, (along with a brief response to each argument).

    Argument 1). Mary was blessed among women: FACT
    Mary was blessed, however, so is every Believer. To make the leap that because Mary was blessed she should receive the adoration/veneration/worship that she’s given is not Scripturally logical. In fact, Scripture records the way Jesus handled the first attempt to elevate Mary’s status. In Luke 11:27-28 a woman in the crowd tried to draw attention away from Christ and to Mary (what the RCC has perfected) but Jesus corrected her saying, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it. “ (Luke 11:27-28). Also, Mary wasn’t/isn’t the only person blessed. See the Sermon on the Mount for a list of others who are “blessed” (Matthew 5:3-11).

    Argument 2). Mary is worthy of/deserves our adoration and veneration: FICTION
    No human is worthy of any amount of veneration or worship because we are all sinners (Psalm 14:3, Romans 3:23); we are to worship God and serve Him only (Matthew 4:10); and God will not give His Glory to another (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11).

    Argument 3). It is permissible and acceptable to pray to Mary: FICTION
    Mary was a human being and suffered the wages of sin–death (Romans 6:23) like everyone else. Scripture prohibits contacting, seeking out, consulting, and/or praying to the dead (Deuteronomy 18:11). It is called necromancy and it detestable to God (Deuteronomy 18:9, 12). Additionally, spiritists, sorcerers, and mediums (who seek to contact the dead) are also condemned by God

    Argument 4). By bowing down and praying to Mary, Catholics are not worshipping her, just venerating her. In fact it is also permissible to make statues of her and bow down to them too: FICTION
    The “veneration” and bowing down to statues is forbidden. It does not matter what you want to call something to make it more palatable, what matters is what God calls it. We can trivialize sin all day long (humans do it all the time) but God has made His commands very clear. I urge you to review all the pictures in this post (click on them to enlarge) and compare what you see—not with what you think and feel—but with what has been revealed in God’s eternal Word. I recommend starting with the 1st and 2nd Commandments found in Exodus 20:4-5.

    Argument 5). Mary pleads our case to Jesus who would listen to His mother above us: FICTION
    This same Jesus that supposedly obeys Mary’s petitions is the same Jesus who when told by Mary that “they have no wine” replied, “Woman, what does that have to do with us?” (John 2:3-4). She then tells the servants to do whatever Jesus commands.
    The Scriptures paint an entirely different picture of the Jesus that supposedly can’t understand us mere humans, thus requiring Mary’s petitions. Hebrews 2:17-18 shows us of a merciful Christ who—being made like man—is able to the come to our aid because He too experienced the same temptations we do. Furthermore, it is Jesus who is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1-2), not Mary.

    Argument 6). Mary is our Mediatrix, our co-redeemer with Jesus: FICTION
    This RCC concept didn’t even emerge until the proclamation from Pope Benedict XV in 1922. But the date of its introduction matters little in contrast to how utterly blasphemous it is to even suggest this, let alone teach as if it’s the truth of God. This idea is in direct violation of God’s Word; Jesus is our advocate (1 John 2:1-2) and “there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus . . .” (1 Timothy 2:5) not Mary.

    Argument 7). Mary was conceived without sin: FICTION
    The idea of the “Immaculate Conception” proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in 1854 has absolutely no foundation in the Scriptures. Even King David (a man after God’s own heart) proclaimed that He was conceived in sin and he was brought forth with iniquity (Psalm 51:5) just like every person ever born.

    Argument 8). Mary remained sinless her entire life: FICTION
    Those who say they have no sin are liars (1 John 1:8); no one does good, not even one (Psalm 14:3); each of us has turned to our own way (Isaiah 53:6); all have sinned (Romans 3:23). This includes Mary. There’s nothing found in Scripture to suggest otherwise. Anyone who claims Mary was sinless is basing this off of their opinion grounded in the purely mythical tradition of man.
    Mary proved she was like everyone else (a sinner) when she brought her offering to the temple (Luke 2:24). This was a sin offering that Mary would not have been required to bring had she been sinless (Leviticus 5:11, 12:8). Mary also acknowledged that God was her Savior (Luke 1:47). A sinless person does not need a savior.

    Argument 9). Mary remained a virgin her whole life (perpetual virginity): FICTION
    This is not only beyond reason, but it is contradictory to the revealed Word of God, the holy Scriptures. Joseph kept Mary a virgin until Jesus was born (Matthew 1:24-25). This means that after the birth of Jesus, Joseph no longer kept Mary a virgin. Mary and Joseph had other children, the half-brothers and half-sisters of the Messiah. This can be seen in Matthew 12:46-50, Matthew 13:55-57, Mark 6:3-4, John 2:12, John 7:3, 5, 10, Acts 1:14, 1 Corinthians 9:5, and Galatians 1:19. (Before you say, “This was brothers and sisters in the Lord” I suggest you read the context of these passages.)

    Additionally, Mary withholding sex from Joseph would have not been in accordance with God’s plans for mankind: “Be fruitful and multiply . . .” (Genesis 1:28); “Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control” (1 Corinthians 7:5).

    Argument 10). Mary ascended into Heaven: FICTION
    The assumption of Mary into Heaven wasn’t even introduced into the RCC until 1950 by then Pope Pius XII, and there is absolutely no Scriptural support for this, not even a hint of it in Scripture.

    Argument 11). Mary was the greatest among all born evidenced by the fact that she was “chosen” by God to birth the Messiah: FICTION
    If anyone was the greatest ever born it would have been John the Baptist, not Mary. Why? Because Jesus said so. Jesus declared of John the Baptist that of those born among women there is no one greater than John (Luke 7:28). Following the logic of the RCC which drives their adoration/veneration/worship of Mary, one would expect that their devotion to Mary would only be eclipsed by their devotion to John the Baptist, however, this is not the case.
    Furthermore, the emphasis put on Mary by the RCC is grossly out of proportion to the emphasis she receives from the Bible. Mary–the earthly mother of Jesus– is never mentioned again in the Bible after Acts 1:14. This means that of the 27 books of the New Testament, only five of them (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts) contain any reference to Mary. Not what one would expect when one looks at the current deification of her by the RCC. Even when one would expect to find her name among those mentioned in Hebrews 11, (commonly known as the great Hall of Faith), Mary and any reference to her is strangely absent.

    Argument 12). Mary is the Queen of Heaven: FICTION
    There is no Queen of Heaven. In fact, the only mention in Scripture of a “Queen of Heaven” (a false god) is in Jeremiah 7:18 in which those who are making cakes to her (and those pouring out drink offerings to other gods) will have the wrath of God poured out on them (Jeremiah 7:20).
    Argument 13). Marian Apparitions are genuine and legitimate: FICTION
    Again, no such teaching, example or precedent for this is found in the Scriptures. However, we are told “Marvel not, for even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14).

    Argument 14). Marian apparition messages are true and from God: FICTION
    “You will never be alone. My immaculate heart will be your refuge and the way which will lead you to God.” – Mary Apparition in Fatima
    “I alone am able to save you from the calamities that approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved.” – Mary Apparition in Akita
    “You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my immaculate heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.” – Mary Apparition in Fatima
    “. . . I call upon you to open yourselves completely to me so that through each of you I may be enabled to convert and save the world . . .” – Mary Apparition in Medjugorje
    The messages of this entity claiming to be Mary ultimately lead people’s attention away from Christ and to herself (itself), not Christ. The Apostle Paul sought to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2). Furthermore, the Apostle Paul warned us that if anyone, even an angel from Heaven, preached a gospel contrary to what was already preached, he/she/it is to be cursed (Galatians 1:6-9).
    Argument 15). Roman Catholic Church (RCC) tradition has provided us the doctrines on Mary: FACT
    This is true. The RCC consisting of sinful, fallible, fallen human beings has given the world these traditions of men, but the holy revealed Word of God—given to the prophets by inspiration and by which will never pass away—does not support these legends, myths, and downright heretical false doctrines.

    As noted above, Mary is never spoken of in the history of the Church or the letters (Epistles) to the Church (except in Acts 1:14 where a brief mention of her is made). No where in all the instruction of conduct, examples of operation, and direction given to the early church for its operation and function is Mary ever mentioned, yet today you couldn’t walk into a Roman Catholic Church without bumping into something to do with Mary, and you’d be hard-pressed to find a member of the RCC that would deny Mary as being a pivotal or important part of their life in the mother church. This devotion and near-deification of Mary is something you cannot find anywhere in the early Church. The silence of the Scriptures alone speaks volumes against the RCC’s current obsession with Mary.
    “For there is one God, and one mediator also
    between God and men, the man Christ Jesus . . .”
    1 Timothy 2:5
    See the following related posts:
    Conversations with a nun in the unlikeliest of places

    Mary-Virgin, Virtuous, not to be Vaulted above her position

    Roman Catholic apologist has trouble explaining the “Immaculate Conception” when students interject Scripture

    Was the Apostle Peter the first pope?

    The written Word of God and Roman Catholicism

    Unmasking the pope and the Roman Catholic system

  3. someone wanted to know about what virgin Mary says about sex in heaven but since there will be no procreation of children in heaven there is no need or desire of it there next..

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